The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => Support => Topic started by: Phienyx on May 09, 2009, 06:54:28 am
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I am looking into getting a large flat panel TV in the next month or so. Now being that I'm not rich, I simply want to know what NOT to get and what some of the specs mean from people who know, not websites looking to sell their product.
What is the difference between 720 and 1080? What does that effect?
What does the hz effect? 60hz or 120hz?
Thanx in advance for any info.
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1080 refers to true high definition; if you have a ps3 or other blur ray device (or an intention and desire to have hd films then 108 is your friend). I think the higher the hertz the less the flicker.
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Just to add to this, there are two types of 1080 - 1080i and 1080p - p is the true hi-def. I can't remember what the difference is.
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Sigh. You people suck. Let the real tech explain it all. :)
720 and 1080 is the count of vertical pixels in a HD screen. 1920X1080 is the precise resolution of 1080, for a total of 2,073,600 pixels. 1280x720 is the persice resolution of 720, for a total of 921,600 pixels. The difference is quite large, ezpecially the bigger your screen gets, less size between pixels, equals better and sharper picture.
The 'p' and the 'i' refer to progressive and interlaced and are closely linked to the hertz rate. The hertz rate is the number of cycles or refreshes of the screen per second. 60 is a common one because A/C power from your outlet, in the US anyway, cycles at a rate of 60Hz, it is easy to tune to. So typically, and this was more noticeable on older CRT screens but flicker could be reduced by upping the hertz. This flicker is much less noticeable on LCDs and well most LCD do run at 60Hz these days.
Back to 'p' and 'i'. These refer to the way the picture is drawn, per frame. Television programming is 30 frames per second. Assuming 60Hz, in interlaced mode, half the picture is drawn in every cycle, using all 60Hz to draw one second of film. In progressive mode, the entire picture is drawn in one frame. So it would draw one frame, pause one frame, draw frame two, pause one frame, and so on, basically using only 'half' the cycles.
Whats the benefit? Well, interlace mode usually happens quick enough to fool the eyes, where you will notice the difference is in fast moving action scenes, edges will appear 'jagged.' Progressive gives a crisper picture and eliminates the jaggedness of fast action.
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So, what I am to gather is that I want 1080p for best quality.
Should I not bother with 120Hz or will 60Hz do me well enough?
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There is probably very very little noticeable difference if any between 60Hz and 120Hz. And yup, getting a screen capable of 1080p is the best way to go.
I personally have a 32" 1080p Toshiba Regza that I play my PC games on and pick up HD over the air with. Which reminds me, having a built in digital tuner is a NICE feature too look for as well!
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Some factors to consider when purchasing a TV
What size do I need?
You should determine the viewing distance (in inches) from the couch/chair to the TV and then divide that number by 3 and by 1.5 to determine your range of screen size. I typically go for the larger size in the range but budgets, space issues, and future use of a tv may also factor into your decision.
For example: You have a space where your couch is going to be 8 feet from the tv. 8 feet = 96 inches.
96/3 = 32 inches (smallest tv size you should get)
96/1.5 = 64 inches (largest tv size you should get)
While that seems like a large range, it does help having those guidelines when you're unsure if going for a 42" or a 50" will still work for comfortable viewing, now you know they both work!
720p vs 1080p?
Put another way, number of pixels on the screen vs television size. Numerous reviewers and my own personal experience dictate that there is a hard cut off for this - 50"
That is, if you're deciding on a television 50 inches and larger, you should get one with a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 (aka 1080p). Where as less than 50" you will not notice a difference in picture quality between 720p (which on tv's is really 1366 x 768) and 1080p native resolutions. That said, it's getting harder these days to find 720p sets because manufacturers can call a 1080p 32" tv "full hdtv" and charge you and extra $300 for resolution you don't really need :-/
De-interlacing and Scaling?
This comes to probably the most overlooked and really the most subjective measure of a television. No matter what source you're feeding your television, be it an old dvd player pumping out 640x480 progressive (480p), an over the air 1920x1080 interlaced or a playstation 3 at 1920x1080 progressive, a television has to make the image display on it's native resolution and in progressive format. De-interlacing and scaling are manufacturer specific and are kind of the real test of a tv as most of the stuff you're watching today via comcast is 480i, via over the air signal 720p (source is 1280 x 720) and 1080i, and blu-ray/ps3/xbox360 up to 1080p. If you have a tv that is say 720p (1366x768) and you're feeding it a 640x480 interlaced picture, it has to de-interlace it and scale it up to fit in each of the screen's 1366x768 pixels. Likewise a 1080p tv would upscale the source to fit 1920x1080 as well as de-interlace the picture. Every television does this differently, and the only way to test it is connecting difference sources up to different tv's to see how the picture looks when they de-interlace/scale.
Ideally you would have a source that matches the native resolution of the tv such as 1080p tv and a 1080p source, in which case no scaling/de-interlacing occurs and you get the most "pure" picture.
60hz vs 120hz?
Yet another gimmick that is exclusive to LCD manufacturers. In theory by increasing amount of times a frame is shot onto the screen, the smoother the picture will be when say, watching an action flick. In practice however, nobody can tell the difference. Again however, it's becoming some accepted industry standard amongst the LCD screens and they can charge you more $$ as a result.
Contrast Ratio?
1000:1, 10,000:1, 1,000,000:1 etc. Don't pay any attention to this number unless you're shopping within one specific brand, and even then be very wary. Every manufacturer has a different way of determining contrast ratio, so the numbers don't really mean a whole lot from brand to brand. Again in theory, the higher the ratio, the better the image, but in practice, just another way to sell you a higher price.
LCD vs Plasma?
Plasma has a better black/color reproduction than LCD, but with current generation LCD's, 9 times out of 10 you won't notice a difference. Plasmas used to have burn in issues, but again, only shitty sets combined with 100hours of stupidity would cause that to happen now. The only real difference is weight. Plasmas are slightly thicker and about 1.5 times heavier than lcds. However, both are a hell of a lot lighter than their crt counterparts. LCD's are still about 20-30% more expensive than plasmas, at least with the Sony/Samsung brand names.
Generic vs Brand Name?
If you're in a store like Best Buy, and you see a Westinghouse next to a Sony and they're playing the same source, change the settings on them to normal (i.e. 50% brightness, etc) and take a few steps back. Look in the corners, along edges of hard objects on the screen, especially look how two colors interact with each other (like a white background with a blue square logo in the middle. Ultimately, see which one displays the better picture. Typically that is going to be the brand name because they have more robust/smarter hardware for de-interlacing/scaling, but then you have to ask, is it worth an extra $800-$1000. You could easily get a 50" or bigger generic plasma for the same price as a 42" Samsung LCD.
ATSC Tuner?
By March 1, 2007 all televisions regardless of screen size, and all interface devices which include a tuner (VCR, DVD player/recorder, DVR) must include a built-in ATSC DTV tuner. So this is a non-issue as long as you're buying a tv that isn't more than two years old.
OLED
The future of tv... (mysterious oooo ^_^)
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OLED
The future of tv... (mysterious oooo ^_^)
I saw something listed as an LED tv at Best Buy and the pic was gorgeous!
FYI: this is what I'm considering buying: http://www.walmart.com/Sony-46-Bravia-1080p-LCD-HDTV-KDL-46S4100/ip/9252003
....and thanx all for the info.
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Does it have to be flat panel? You can still get a very large 1080p DLP for half the cost of an LCD or Plasma. I have a 57 inch 1080p Mitsubishi that I picked up for what you're planning on paying for a 46.
As far as bang for the buck goes it's amazing. Better picture quality as well.
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One very important note that most seem to be skipping over is "Where exactly in the home will this new TV be placed?" The reason I say this is because LCD and Plasma TV's reflect light very differently. If you are going to put the TV in a room (like your standard living room) where there is ample amounts of sunlight then DO NOT buy a Plasma. Plasma screens are very reflective and if you put it in a room that gets lots of sunlight then you'll be spending all of your time looking at the reflection instead of the show you want to watch. On the other hand if the room has little to no sunlight (like a basement theater room for example) then by all means Plasma is an excellent choice (all other factors being equal).
LCD screens, unlike Plasma have the ability to absorb more light (which by the way is what most people mistake as poor contrast ratios and "not as dark" blacks) and as such are better suited for well lit environments.
So to sum up:
Plasma = Best viewed in an always darkened environment
LCD = Good in both dark and well lit environments
If you want to see what I'm talking about first hand go to your local BestBuy, find a large screen LCD and Plasma TV that are both in well let settings and closely examine their reflection while their screens are OFF. You should immediately see the difference.
I am by no means an authority on the subject but after having done several months of research into this whole topic when I bought my TV I can confidently say I know wtf I'm talking about.
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Does it have to be flat panel? You can still get a very large 1080p DLP for half the cost of an LCD or Plasma. I have a 57 inch 1080p Mitsubishi that I picked up for what you're planning on paying for a 46.
As far as bang for the buck goes it's amazing. Better picture quality as well.
DLP?
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Phienyx
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/548724-REG/Sony_KDL46S4100_KDL_46S4100_46_1080p_BRAVIA.html
Same exact TV, $33 cheaper w/ free shipping. Go buy a case of good beer, woot!
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that Sony is good I have one in my home. I also have a 50" samsung which i think is slightly better but way more expensive. Overall I would give that sony a 9 on a scale to 10 it has a gorgeous picture especially when HD is concerned you cant go wrong with that TV. Sony always seems to make good TV's anyway always near the top.
Oh and btw gaming on the Sony is top notch. HD crysis is amazing.
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Get the Samsung 55" LED, it's amazing. I got it a few weeks ago, The Matrix Reloaded has never looked so good, best picture I have EVER seen. Actually, I think Samsung just released a newer version too, like the 8100 or something.
Anyways, LED is LCD with a backlight. So, you get even brighter, sharper images with Plasma-level Contrast ratios (3million:1 on that one). Stunning TV.
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the problem with the LED LCD's are the price... I dont think he wanting to spend that much but the picture on them is incredible I will agree.
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Yeah, DLP. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3749849&SRCCODE=WEBGPROD&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE
That's a 60 inch for the price you were thinking of. ;)
Still best picture quality around for HD IMO.
None of these were an issue for me, so I chose DLP. I love my TV.
DLP Disadvantages
Biggest disadvantage is called the Rainbow effect. Everyone does not see the Rainbow effect; therefore this may not impact you. For the people that do see it, it is usually seen when people look away from the screen then look back quickly. It appears as a colored streak across the screen. We suggest you view a few DLP televisions in a store to determine if this will be a problem for you or not. The manufactures are also working diligently to eliminate this issue and it has improved, hopefully this will not be an issue much longer.
Although slimmer then older projection televisions. The depth (6-18 inches) of most DLP televisions is more then a Plasma or LCD. Therefore if you are planning on hanging it on the wall this will most likely prove prohibitive.
Because the DLP television is a rear projection TV, the viewing angle is not as great as Plasma or LCD technologies. With rear projection you will find that if you are too far off to one side or the other the color will not appear consistent. This may not matter to you unless you have a wide room and need to be able to see the television from areas off to the side. We suggest a viewing angle of 40% or less for a DLP.
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Yeah DLP is good technology. Me and my dad built a move theater in the basement a few years ago and we've been using an old school Optima 480p DLP projector to make roughly a 110" diagonal on the wall. Even though it's a crappy 480p, the color and contrast is really good!
I don't know much about DLP TVs, I thought maybe they were bigger, but it seems not. My only gripe with projection TVs is the lens and shit can get dirty over time, not sure if that is an issue, the throw distance must be very small, and obviously huge lens aren't involved like the old projections.
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Yes, I've seen one of those LCDs and .....HOLY SHIT! That statement covers both picture and price, but I want one.....bad.