Eligoh's Resignation

[Anonymous]

Mendel? The father of genetics? The monk with peas?

You mean Mengele, I take it. And Himmler, Goebbels, Goering, et.al. Yeah. Bad crowd.

If you look simply at things like economics, there were improvements, it's true. But then again to get those improvements, you also get facism, a police force with absolute authority and no checks and balances.

If I have to choose to either a) be poor and suffer or b) live in fear of accidentally saying that the furher licks hairy goat nuts, I'll take poor.

And yeah. That is an oversimplification. But if you think oppressive government that represses the people and cultivates a culture of fear to unify itself is a good thing - regardless of the "benefits" - then there's a place for you. It's called Canada. ( <--- Joke, for those who might think I'm serious)

One more thing. Right on the edge at the moment. Locking program loaded and standing by.

[Anonymous]

You have to look at it emotionally, we're not robots.  Anything good he did is negated by the infinite bad.  

Looking back on what he did for Germany you can't say that it was good.  How is dictating with fear a respectable practice?  People had hope because they didn't want to die.  Political opponents were executed as well.  The people of Germany had no choice but to follow him, if they didn't, they died.  Of course there were people who genuinely supported and loved Hitler, hell there still are today, but those people were and are idiots.  The only reason he was a great leader was because he was charismatic.  With the country in shambles after World War I, he was a charismatic man that said he could put Germany on top.  A charasmatic ape could've done the same thing, the people just needed someone to follow, and they would, blindly, because of what poor shape the country was in.  Hitler was nothing special, just a guy who knew how to speak to a crowd.

[Anonymous]

I am going to have to repeat myself again here. I am not saying that Nazi Germany was a nice place to be for many, but that Hitler did make some improvements to Germany, and you can't just dismiss this because he was so evil. We musn't ignore what Hitler did for Germany as that would just be hypocritical, he was an evil, fucked up in the head genius, but a genius nevertheless

[Anonymous]

But what genius tears down all he's created with a war?  He was foolish to think he could take on the world.  His plans for Germany are what brought the war and ended the "prosperity"

[Anonymous]

"but those people were and are idiots."

Nasty comment. Of course now, we have hindsight, but at the time, it must have been all to easy to jump on the bandwagon. The country was in shambles, I agree, and that is why Hitler flourished. But he knew how to take advantage of this and did so almost perfectly. Germany needed a radical solution and Hitler was the obvious solution.

[Anonymous]

Actually Syntax, had Japan not agitated America, Germany probably would have won the war with Britain, and soon after controlled all of Europe.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Hitler did get carried away and was power hungry. That was his weakness, his desire to make Germany the strongest nation. The fact is, the post war leaders were so desperate to avoid another war that they made concession after concession (Called the Policy of Appeasement for thsoe who don't know), in the hope that Hitler would be satisfied. He wasn't. He misjudged the appeasement as a sign of weakness, so made dare after dare, from invading the Rhineland, to making the anschluss, to invading Czechoslovakia. It was stupid, especially when Appeasement gave the Allies some time to rearm. I'm quite enjoying this argument, but I gotta do some latin now. Check back with this later.

[Anonymous]

"but those people were and are idiots."

Nasty comment.

Nasty comment for nasty people, nazi's don't deserve anything better.

But I digress, I think we've watered this down as far as it will go, I should actually try to do more work...here at work..  :p

[Anonymous]

eligoh left...sad to see him go although i get this strange feeling he doesnt like me.

[Anonymous]

When you made that comment you weren't referring to the Nazis though, you were referring to those who supported the Nazis out of their own free will. (Screw latin heh)

[Anonymous]

"Of course there were people who genuinely supported and loved Hitler, hell there still are today, but those people were and are idiots."

OK I didn't say they were nazi's, but still, someone who still supports, or revere's Hitler, is an idiot.  We have hindsight now, we know who he was, and if you still like Hitler...well...you're stupid.  I don't want to say it more intelligently, I think stupid, and idiot about cover my sentiments.

EDIT: Oh and supporting nazi's out of your own free will doesn't make you any better, you're supporting nazi's...that's bad.

[Anonymous]

How can this subject be looked at objectionably?
How can we approach the motives of the Furher?
How can we say that while he was a bad guy, he had accomplished good things?

Because people still walk the earth that remember the smell of thier dead families beeing wafted into the air through smoke stacks.

You don't want to read the ones I refused to think up to type down.  I'm done giving reasons not to defend or seek just in his cause.  

Sev out.

[Anonymous]

I don't think anybody today "likes" Hitler apart from weird cults. I was just saying that at the time it might not have seemed so stupid to support Hitler as it now does to us today, especially when there was so much unemployment etc. Sevker, history is a big part of my life, and you have to look at this shit objectively. It is an undescribably horrible crime against humanity, and everyone knows that, but Hitler can still be talked about with a degree of emotion taken out. It is hard, we've all seen the footage, the photos,and have all at one stage had a moment where it has troubled our minds deeply to the point of disgust and great, great sadness, ashamedness, anger and pity. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to look at his acheivements with a degree of wonder, despite my feelings towards his horrific wrongdoings.

[Anonymous]

Personally I don't want to look at it objectively.  Hitler doesn't deserve that in my eyes.  Emotion should govern any discussion about such a travesty.  I'll say it again, just like Sevker, the victims of that era deserve better than that.  Hitler should be remembered for his evil, not his supposed good.

I don't want a history book 100 years from now talking about Hitler as a great leader, who made strides in improving quality of life in Germany, and then started a big war and lost.  I want him in that text as a maniacal dictator who wanted nothing short of world domination, and killed millions of innocent people to try and get there.

[Anonymous]

Firstly, I never said that Hitler should be remembered for his good, and I believe quite the opposite, just as you do. I think that I have already established that I feel the same way as you do towards Hitler emotionally, but trying to be objective here, he did improve Germany in non emotional ways, economic etc as I have already stated, and we must try to understand the German people of the time and why they did all support Hitler, I believe the reason is not that they were idiots but that firstly, they wanted a firm leadership, and any solution to unemployment after the Great Depression, you certainly can't blame them for that. I strongly believe as you do that Hitler was a maniac guilty of horrendous atrocities and deserves to be remembered as just that, but how increidible it is that an Austrian who had been unemployed, turned down from art school, became the ruler of most of Europe.