The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 07, 2004, 11:10:56 pm
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I was wondering what being a Zionist means to everybody....this can help us get a more generalized sketch of what being a Zionist means, and help us strategize better for FA to become one of the MxO greats.
Beign a Zionist to me is really only a "tite" or a "group" I prefer to say I'm a human protector. I fight for whats in the best intrests of the humans, in the best intrests of humanity. I dont beleive living in a fake world where you're subtly controlled is in the best intrest. I belie that Zion is the only way human rights will ever be fully best represented. I beleive we are the warriors of the human spirit, the protector of the homo sapien soul. Our lives are only but weapons to be used against any and all that would stand in the way of humanity surviving freely. - Maybe I got a lil into it lol but can ya blame me? i really wanna see this topic take off, because i beleive it can really help us....
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Following the theme of the movie, one could say it's about humans' control over their own destiny, or freedom.
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Will the machinists be actual machines,agents or just like us but on the other side?
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To my knowledge, machinists will consist of those who prefer the false world of the matrix to the real world. To that end, they may make some kind of alliances with the machines, but don't expect them to be fighting alongside agents.
They follow the path of Cypher (Cipher?), if that helps your perspective.
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Zionists call for not only the end of the Matrix but the end of the Machines themselves. Until we erase our mistake of creating AI, humanity will never be free.
Machinists, on the other hand, believe that either the Matrix seems more real than the real world, or that we made AI and now we must live with it.
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I believe strongly that Zionists embrace Freedom.
But it is something more than that. To be a Zionist is to embrace life, to feel the pounding of the blood in your veins, to smell the aroma of mother nature and man in all their glory and all their stench, to see the beauty that is a natural rock formation, to feel the small tingle of the wind brushing against the hair on one's arm. It is the excitement, the anxiety, the anger and the glory of man and woman.
If we cannot see and experience the wonder of the world, how can we expect to free it?
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Cephus I think you're wrong....Zionists shudn't be calling for the end of the machines....the end of the matrix yes, end of the machines no. We need peace not more war. You saw what happened the last time humanity tried to institue prejudice against he machines. Even if we don't get wiped out, it would only turn out for the worst.
To quote the oracle ".....Believe me Neo..The only way to get there is together." So if we try and destroy them, we're going to destroy ourselves."
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That was when everyone was still in the matrix, now that Neo saved us, we can take on the machines and 01. The situation you describes is very similar to the world MxO takes place in. And if you think about it, ending the matrix ends the machines. No matrix equals no power so we are for the eventual end of the machines, period.
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I concur with Cephus.
How can Zion and Machines forge peace when the two concepts cannot co-exist? A machine is, in essence, the opposite of life, of emotion, of spontaneity. If we can agree that those characteristics are the fundamental building blocks of our human spirit, then it is counterintuitive to suggest we ought to compromise. Our very natures are not something with which we can forge deals.
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Do we not use machines to guarantee our survival in Zion? Do we not use machines for transportation, communication? We tread a very narrow path. Do you think we really pose a threat to the machines simply by being outside of the matrix? If they decided to end the truce right now, we would be dead before the night was done.
Perhaps we would stand a chance if everyone in the matrix was freed at once. Even so, the fields where they harvest our children are endless, they could plant the seeds of another matrix quickly and efficiently. Besides we are not prepared to deal with freeing everyone at one time. This is a gradual process. We have neither the resources, the space, nor the population needed to pull everyone out at once. Can you imagine the chaos? Our brothers and sisters would parish by the millions without the machines even raising a finger.
We have to proceed slow, or we'll never be able to end the matrix. Once we reach this point will we decide whether we go again to war or attempt a peaceful coexistence.
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Remember, we're fighting the AI machines, not the ones underneath Zion the Hammond talks about. Those (like the APU's and other machanical things) do not run from the singular conscienceness that is our enemy. AI must be destroyed and I agree that it will take time, yet we will never be able to coexist with these machines and a final result will come to pass one day. I hope the humans are on top at that time.
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How can they not co-exist? The reason the machines enslaved humanity in the first place is because humanity first enslaved the machines. We treated them as beings without sentience, and they rebelled against us, their slavemasters. The tide turned completely, and know they subject us to their will.
All that is needed is a lack of prejudice -- something we must admit the machines posessed first. We denied them equality, and as a result, they developed the same sort of supriority complex that we first held over them.
I would argue that our enemy is not the Matrix, nor the machines specifically. I believe it is important not to think in terms of black and white, good and evil, when looking at Man and Machine.
What is important to me is that those within the Matrix are permitted to know that the world they live within is digitally constructed. Some would prefer to stay. So be it. Some would prefer to disconnect. So be it. This is the sort of freedom I imagine.
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Someone said if we could fix the sky we could achieve the ambitions of all with great reward. The sun would be a greater source of energy than humans, and it would cost less in the events of futher wars upon zion.
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I think you guys are forgetting that the Architect said that they had "other means" of power, and that they could survive without the human battery. And also we are the ones who started the war, or more specifically, the owners of B1GG3R, who treated the first of tyhe AI the completely wrong way.
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Indeed, they have fusion. Humans are merely a battery to them, it seems, not the power plant itself.
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Someone said if we could fix the sky we could achieve the ambitions of all with great reward. The sun would be a greater source of energy than humans, and it would cost less in the events of futher wars upon zion.
This was my take on the whole thing. Taken from another thread.:
To find peace, we have to end the threat. How can we do that? I see it as a paradox. I think everyone would be fine with making peace with the machines so long as they did not enslave us. So how do we create peace? This is the formula.
For them to have peace they need to survive. They need us to survive. The only way that they can survive is by enslaving us.
For us to have peace. We need freedom. The machines want to enslave us. The only way we can have freedom is by destroying the machines.
Or is it?
Imagine this my friends. What if. The humans and the machines UNITED. They rose up and coordinated an effort to find an alternative power source. What if TOGETHER we developed a way to fix the sky?
Imagine.
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Now Likwidtek your idea about us shaping MxO by having FA only fight for Peace is a well idealed and commendable plan, but I'm not sure how effective it would be. The reasons for this is let's jsut be relistic for a moment. We can't ever make FULL peace. It's a game that is striving off of the fact that the peace is shaky at best, and soon will come to an end. If we were to become close to causing peace, the game developers would cause some faction of AI machinists to like do something to disrupt it, or like have the machines backstab us or something. But I'm not disagreeing with you on what we should fight for. We SHOULD fight for peace, or atleast first and foremost Zion. Or let's take that and change it to let's fight for the humans. Different definitions right?
I know that no matter what there will always be separatists. But I just think it would be neat to see the desert of the real turn into a populated city again. WITH the help of the machines. As you remember WE are the one’s who caused the war. It was US who drove the machines out. They ONLY wanted to make good business and ally. Originally THEY wanted peace. Ironic....
How neat would it be to see more to the story… The war with the machines is over. But separatists from each group still want to wage war due to prejudice. I think it would be neat.
For those of you who have not watched the ANIMATRIX I highly suggest that you do so. It’s where I thought of a lot of this. Also.. I just watched the original Matrix movie again last night…
Man it amazes me how awesome that movie is and was. In my opinion it is the best out of all of them. And I think as far as story goes… it would be the most applicable to the game. Just things like the construct (loading program) being able to bring ANYTHING me want into game. Be it guns, bombs, vehicles, computers, money (which is why money is not going to work in the game… information is what is bartered)
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Im dont feel that strong about fighting for zion, in a real sence. But ingame thats the side i have chosen, and will fight for them, i am here to have fun and i think that would be the best way to go.
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Hmm I'm not to sure about that Zophiel, seeing as how the arch implied that the alternative would be a lesser one, one that wasn't as highly looked upon.
Cephus and Muse I disagree with you alot. We can't fight for peace, but then be hating the machines. It DOES have emotions, it DOES have feelings....thats what we have made it to do. You can't say that it doesn't feel when a machine rebelled from its master because it was tired of being a slave.
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If humans and machines were to co-exist then we would be an unstoppable force, this is only if this situation ever occured, but if we realised that we could research phanominally fast and have machines building tirelessly. We could build space stations and have programs that go to planets to stay and retrive information, looking at it this way it would seem that the machines would be the more predominant species (if thats what you could call them). The humans could work on creating better machines like emotional programs and cyborgs. Just imagination geeting going there, sorry if it doesnt really have any relevance.
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The very fact the machines are respecting the peace treaty means they too have a desire to pursue this goal. It's a good sign, in my opinion. As said before, we'll see where this leads in due time, but we have other goals to focus on in the meantime. Don't forget the purpose of the FA.
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Our purpose of the FA is to protect Zion.
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I fight for zion because "No one can be perfectly free till all are free." (Herbert Spencer)
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I fight for zion not because it is the right thing to do, and I have never been able to have an evil character in any game for some reason, probably because i can't stand to be horrible, i fight for Zion because it is the last bastion of hope left. It is all the enamours what we belive in, it is Heaven in the holy texts and I would give anything to fight for heaven.