The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 23, 2005, 08:40:48 pm
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I found this on the MXO boards... these two essays are the best explinations for the matrix 2 and 3 i've ever heard...
http://wylfing.net/essays/index.html
Definatly check it out...
And on another note... later on I'm going to post something about the complete destruction of the matrix... it should make for a good debate...
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That is bloody deep. I now see that the second two films were far more sophisticated than the first, and they were only slated as being bad films because the meanings went straight over our heads. Now that I have read that it seems bloody obvious, but I doubt if I would ever have considered the possibilities and ambiguities of the phrases, names and events that transpire in the trilogy.
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Wow... simply wow.
Those are some of the best theories and explainations about the Matrix and the movies I have heard so far.
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Damn Venlar, nice find. I was one of those "dual-matrix" people and was a bit disapointed in the second two movies. But now I think I can watch them in a new light...
*runs off to pick up Reloaded and Revolutions"
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he's a wacko...tell him to save it for sunday school....
you know, there are people that actually belong to the Church of Jedi Knight....doesn't mean I thin they are any more right...
total wacko..
He does have a few correct points philosophically about the movie, but he goes overboard.
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Long read but he has an interesting perspective on a some topics.
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yoda... i don't think he ment it to sound ultra christian or anything.. if u read the whole thing you'll notice he makes refrences to pretty much ALL of the religions out there... and most of it is a comparison to certain aspects of those religions in which there are some very close similarities
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I'm gonna check these out at work, thanks for the find!
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Makes perfect sense to me... a lot of it isn't even reaching. I think most people were aware of various holy stories in-between the lines.
Good read, that will be passed to all who watched the films.
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well, he made a few too many comparisions....
and even though he had a few good ideas, he swamps them with his personal belief structure.
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I think there's one thing people have to understand about religion. It is defined as "An organized system of beliefs, rites, and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power; belief pursued with devotion."
With that in mind, anything and everything can be a religion. Zion was their own religion.
No matter where you go, no matter what story is written, what "new" idea is thrown out there, the connection between it and the Bible is inevitable. Why? Because within the Bible is pretty much every possible story imaginable. The writers of the Bible were well beyond their time. Whether you chose to accept their stories or not, the Bible is a great piece of literary work. Even if every single story was made up, hell, I see that as more of a stretch than if they were true. To devise a story that detailed, over so many years, that has so few holes and loops, that so many can put their belief in, if it all was just "made up," then those writers of the Bible were beyond genius.
My point? Don't diss on a comparison just because it mentions Christianity (or any other religion for that matter). If you do not believe in God, then look at the essays from a literary view. The conclusions he draws and the comparisons he makes are made from a literary perspective, meaning that he takes out the premises from each and sets them side by side. They are just words, being put together in a logical form for those of us who would not draw those conclusions on our own. He was comparing literature with literature. Belief against belief. How is that going overboard?
People dress up like characters from movies. They create games for them. They name themselves after them. Is that any less "going overboard?"
Now, I don't understand how you can say his personal beliefs got in the way of his ideas. Aren't they one and the same? Isn't everything that you think a part of your belief structure?
I'll let you sit on that for a while.
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couldn't of said it any better myself grim...
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just to add on a little bit of comedy, a friend once told me:
"God made me an atheist! Who are you to question his wisdom?"
EDIT: I like his random side-note to vegitarians and vegans. In the words of a friend of mine who went to college with me (while looking at a salad):
"This is not food!! This is what food eats!!"
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I am still reading it, but it'll take me a day or two to read it all. But from what I have read so far, it goes straight to the point in most areas. Thanks for finding this. :D
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I am not "dissing" on the essay because it points our religion. Of course the matrix movies had a lot of religion undertones.
My problem is when he goes on that EVERY single part of the movie had some religious counterpart. Neo Just Ate a Cookie.....THAT"S IT! He wasn't defining his relationship with the mother of creation (I.E. Mother mary) and he wasn't proving his mortal side.
Finally, a person may have his ideas of what a movie(s) is about, but he relied too much on RELIGION for the movie(s) rationale! He tried to put a religious undertone to people dancing to music! I'm not saying believing in christianity is stupid, and I am not saying there aren't religious overtones in the movies: what I said was he swamped his main theories with his personal belief structure.
I could go on about why I didn't like his essay, but I have a sore throat.
If you want to discuss this more in time, look me up in game.
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ah good ole religion, one subject that i probably shouldnt start typing about, cause the last time i did, i got in trouble, so good luck =)
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I Don't believe that this guy is reading too deep into the movies... I mean.. it is the matrix... about the scene in the cave... i accually agree with what he is saying... The main comparison he is making there is the Matrix is the Garden of Eden... and the Real world is well... The REAL world... its dirty nasty grummy and blah... yes blah.... and it makes perfect sense to display that with that scene... barefoot people dancing. sweating, grinding... it displays human nature and the fact that we would chose to struggle rather than exist in a perfect world... his main point through this... in my point of view is that human beings need struggle to define themselves... without struggle we cannot better ourselves.
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ok .... so he supported all of the parts of his essay the same way. that is the basis of GOOD WRITING. if he just randomly took a section of that essay and DIDN'T compare it to religion, that would have ruined the essay as a piece of literary work. No one said you have to agree with it. But what you're saying is that he wrote crap for an essay. Whether you agree with his conclusions or not, he wrote a GOOD essay and supported it well. And I don't agree with your statement of him "swamping it with his personal beliefs" since, as venlar said, he used several different religions to back up his conclusions. GOOD WRITING.
do not try to take this topic out of the thread and into the game. it started here, it stays here.
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I read that a long time ago.....my friend and I discoverd it.....pretty good essays I say, and there are a limited number of essays I actually like for the Matrix.
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Some people on here obviously have a very big need to prove their point and prove me wrong....
Just Give it a break...it's boring now.
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hey man... didnt mean to offend you... just tryin to start a healthy debate
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it should make for a good debate...
Don't take anything that grim says personal just trying to start a convo or debate or what have you.
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Arch!!!! Yea listen to Arch..........Grim just is not afraid to type what she thinks sometimes.....well alota times rather.
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I guarantee every single shot, every single frame, is smybolic of math, philosophy, spirituality, psychology.... This was done very carefully using something called the Integral approach.. the Wachowski bros' college major(advanced math) and their minor (world religions) helped to make things more intricate and complex...thats why you can draw multiple paralels in this story.....
he wasnt defining a relationship with "mother mary" but with the oracle aka sophia aka the serpent...as in the goddess that gave birth unto a God who believed himself to be the only one.
basically he is pointing out only tiny bits of what was implemented and integrated into the films...The message and purpose of the trilogy is more important than what critics or audiences think... That's why you may not have liked the last 2 films, because the genius behind it was more important than catering to idiots.
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,561273,00.html
Today is Wednesday 9 March 2005
Today's Maya Date:
12 . 19 . 12 . 1 . 16
7 Cib
19 Kayab
2844 days until 13.0.0.0.0 = 2012 = End of Mayan calendar(oldest system ever created and still in use til now) and the year that Indiadaily.com says extraterrestrials will save us from hurtin ourselves on this planet thanks to the newly formed BRIC alliance playing their oil trump card and backing up our enemies which is going to cause a lot of stress..
basically my point is people believe in some far fetched shit...but hey the UN isn't passing a bill for countries to decide their own regulations and laws on cloning for no reason.. i mean 5 years ago, some people would've told me cloning isn't possible, and that our genome can't be mapped out...or that neurodynamics makes no sense...
other people applying integral approach include : billy corgan, stuart davis, kenjiwilliams( http://www.kenjiwilliams.com ), saul williams(poet), alex grey(guy who makes the best psychedelic images ever!) larry and andy wachowski and even their dad..
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/xaos1.mpg < watch it and learn
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/chapter1-mset.mpg
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/xaos2.mpg
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/newton.mpg
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/barnsley2.mpg
http://xaos.theory.org/movies/barnsley1.mpg
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omg ..... boombye ...... an intellectual post ..... i'm impressed :P
i shoulda known you were going to somehow incorporate indiandaily haha :)
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yeah its a crazy news site, obsessed with bollywood's top actresses posing nude in upcoming flicks, or politics in that region, and remote viewing/ufos
yet it remains a mainstream paper that is read seriously, not like a tabloid...
For example, Iran claimes to have been getting into dog fights in the air with UFOs they believe belong to us..One month later, our news sources in the west, published a story that we're using drones over Iran and that their public mistakes them for UFOs as if they never heard of UAVs..Yet their Government, as well as Russia, India, and China printed the story which came as a claim from the Iranian Air Force who said they've been unsuccessful and bringing one down but have been actively enganging them in combat.
India believes these crafts like to venture into regions that are emerging nuclear powers, such as India, Iran, China, Russia, and even North Korea.
BRIC alliance = Brazil, Russia, India, China...the 4 are pretty much fed up with what we're doing, so they decided to compete a new cold war of sorts or rather a semi ww3(war for energy and oil consumption)..concerning the central and mid-east asian region .if there was to be a ww4, it'd be over taiwan/north korea..
The Italian journalist who was shot at by American soldiers for example, writes for a communist paper "Il Manifesto", not to mention we have a no bargain policy, so when someone found out she was freed on an unofficial sum of $1 mil, this pissed off someone a lot, and it forced them to play their hand at seeing this communist journalist doesn't make it back home..She even claimed to be scared after being released from her kidnappers because she was told that she being targetted and that the Americans didn't want her to return to Italy....Now is she making anything up because she's an upset communist who blames her kidnapping on us because we're the ones that went to war in the first place, which caused her as a journalist to do her duty and go there to report, which in turn led her to feeling stupid because she got kidnapped in place where she doesn't agree with what is being carried out there?? Or did her being released thru bargain, undermine our strategies there..as we don't bargain because it only encourages them to kidnap more, this our policy and we stick by it. as opposed to her situation which was had nothing to do with us...
Then you've got Brazil's trump card with Venezeula(some of the cheapest oil, the people fought in that country to get their president back in power, yet our sources report that they live in a totaliarian government..but the people fought to bring him back! the entire country went at it.. The only people mad there are the rich people, especially people in the media there because a lot of money is going towards the poor...
Regardless of what you buy into or not..We're all uber-consumerists, able to get music at the click of a button, send a message in text on a wireless signal from across the globe on a phone...I mean...what is far fetched anymore???
Anyone ever heard of the word "Inertia" ?
The Matrix trilogy is like a huge mandala...lots of detail to be explored....you'd just have to know where the symbolism originated, and if other cultures have had these ideas as well...
If there was no such thing as UFO can someone explain to me how that German toy known as X-UFO(which goes on sale here by Christmas), is able to do what it does??? http://www.brandora.de/P116438.brandora or http://widicam.net/misc/pics/xufo-i-want-to-fly-it.jpg or http://www.microheliforum.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=993;start=0#msg5788
everyone already knows we recruited the nazi scientists(who've committed some of the worst crimes possible), to create ufos..if you've watched Nazi aviation vids on History Channel, they always show that disc shaped craft, that's a single seater and kinda small, that just hovers but has no control....
All you really need are gyroscopic motors...anyways everything is now possible in this postmodern age, where what we know always be simulated.
China just joined the rest of the space community, and are now working close with India to develop their own crafts, as we and the russians and the japanese, as well and the brits and aussies have been working on..and of course the germans too..
You don't have to take it seriously, but to have an imagination and ponder these things are pretty fun...
New sources of energy will be coming out, as well as more safer and practical ways to travel, and then people need to be condiitioned into not thinking much of gyroscopic motors, so that UFOs won't be a thing of amazement anymore...But what all countries need is pride in the homeland to boost the morale of the people and to push the innovations furthor and developments furthor....I mean this really isn't the post-peak oil era, that's a hoax..rather this is a perfect time for countries to boost their homeland morale and pride..because the future will be here in a couple years...It already is, but nobody is geeky enough to find out just how far we've been advancing lately...
HAARP created the first artificial sky over Alaska earlier this month, or late last month...nobody seems to bring that up???
Oh well I'm a fukin nerd I need to go smoke some bud or somethin so my brain can relax lols..but yeah don't take me all serious, because im a loser lols...
I should just go write a book instead, bye
p.s. http://www.erop.de/ufo.avi <3 gyro, 4 rotor r/c craft... so maybe we did have UAV drones over Iran that they got into combat with, since we can equip those with weapons now...but nobody ever said which UAVs =) This X-UFO comes out in Germany in April for $100 or 130euro.."It is "invented" by 2 German boys, who developed it together with a company "Silverlit Toys ltd." in Hong Kong." and it could be the same as a Draganflyer, only smaller, and perhaps might be by the same people.. If you made it this far, that .avi is your present... In fact, this thing is going on sale for $100, which has got to be one of the cheapest prices i've seen for an r/c flyer..not to mention it's a ufo! It is going to be a huge seller, and guaranteed to reel in a lot of Christmas money...Hence condition people to these capabilities on a small scale and move your way up.. once again, i must spam; http://www.erop.de/ufo.avi
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what boombye was refering to ( the artificial sky) is right here and looks pretty amazing http://scastile.blogspot.com/2005/02/first-artificial-neon-sky-show-created.html
quite an interesting read especially since this is possible now.
edit: should work now.
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Arch - page not found
Boom - So this means I can finally get one of those hover boards from Back to the Future? Sweet! How does it work exactly? I guess I should go read up on gyroscopic motors. It didn't seem to disturb anything around it - it wasn't pushing air underneath it or anything like that - it seemed to just be hovering. *goes to do research*
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Yoda, yeah don't take anything too personally, everyone has their own opinion :) The only time I take something personally is when there is a personal attack on me ;)