The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Tbone on April 10, 2005, 04:20:21 am
-
For the time being please do not post on the Enumerator: General forum, especially on topics relating to us. Let's not feed the trolls for a while. Thanks.
-
ouch..
This hurts!
DiscoChild
Posts: 2
From: The Syndicate on Enumerator
Registered: 3/31/05
Re: Monolith you cant cover up this grand screw up
Posted: Apr 10, 2005 2:50 AM in response to: Psycidelicos in response to: Psycidelicos
Click to reply to this thread Reply
They cheated by using the ressurection bug, whereby you ressurect someone after a duel, and they are unattackable in PvP. FA did this, they ressurected a fellow member who led the shaper without worrying about being attacked by an opposing organization. Essemtially, they were "invicible" for a period of time.
I love how FA tries to be the great "leader" behind this whole game, but in the end they end up being the same egotistical, sackless chumps as the people they claim to be above. Face it, FA, you guys are weak. Not because of your numbers, god no. Because of your character (or obvious lack thereof). And what pisses me off more than anything is how it all just falls under the radar...oh, what was that? you guys found the cycler exploit?! thank you guys so much for pointing that out to the devs and evening the game out..........after using it up unto the point where OTHER people started to use it.
and one thing that just gets me so.....excited....is i haven't seen a single MFing post of an FA trying to redeem or rectify themselves. this is beautiful. mmmm, is that humble pie tasty, FA? I hope it is, because you're gonna need to eat every single last bite of it.
Man we gotta do something. He's got some points. We need to put ourselves back where we were. We're no longer respected and I do believe there is a way to gain their respect back. We just need to really work hard to get it back.
And to be honest with ourselves guys... no matter what we say... we knew it was wrong to cycle those missions for so long... and we knew it would be wrong to have that shaper follow someone who was non pvp because he was ressurected.
Take a look around the enumerator genereal forums guys. We're no longer respected. And I don't feel that it's because we're better... I think they are starting to get some valid points.
Just want to get that out in the air that we all need to start leading by action. I want to be respected and admired in the game... not feared and looked down on because we cheat or play dirty.
-
ugh... we need to bring the community together again...
-
likwidtek, I've been saying this for the past 3 weeks...but no one listens...I hope your words are heard louder then mine :)
-
Tbone is right, ignore them... let them feed themselves.. they start a flame post and if we reply it propagates the post. If no one replies to this crap, there will be a couple of flames but then it has to just die down. They're not going to flame if they eventually get the point that we're not going to give them our attention anymore.
There are a bunch of PhD's running around.. that's short for player hating dickheads.. no matter what we do, there are certain people who have and share inherent loathing that will never, ever turn to our favor. To hell with them. And stop replying to them, even in jest. The developers don't even read the Enumerator board because not a single constructive post has EVER come from it. There are three subforums: General, Market and Recruitment.
General - Full of flames, no one generates anything constructive, devs don't read.. no reason to post.
Market - Full of people trying to sell the female versions of dungeon loot. We already have all the gear they're trying to sell.
Recruitment - Even our recruitment thread has been hijacked.. only on Enumerator, not on the general forums. People know where to find us.
There is really no reason for any of us to use that forum and the more we use it, the more firewood there is.
Likwidtek, the only reason the 'exploiter' thing came around is because we're the only people who have admitted to using it. And that's the bottom line. The cycle exploit thing is done. It will never be done in the court of public opinion but the developers don't seem to be bothering us about it so it's done in the court of justice.
The problem is that we've been feeding them for too long. We've been constantly on the defensive.. when you're always on the defensive you're always justifiying your actions and you begin to look guilty.
The Enumerator boards are not an adequate representation of "the community." I still had two different small faction leaders contact me yesterday and ask if they could be our allies, to which I directed them to the bluepills forum and/or to Tbone. The Enumerator forum is used by the same 30 trolling assholes all the time. Look at any post.. you will see the same signatures over and over. If that's the community you need to impress, I say fuck it. I've had enough of the Continuity and their continuous inflammatory posts. I'm disappointed with Viral Humanity and their exploiters and Mek for turning his respectable database website into a FA bashing post. Screw New Method and Arktur's dog with the cigar. Guru's circular machine ring, Antharas' green dragon. Rap's stupid gnome Give up on this "community." They're not worth impressing.
If no one posts anything for an entire week, I guarantee the FA hating posts will decrease 80% because if they see we don't give a shit as to what they have to say, then most of them will stop. And if they don't stop, at least only the haters will be dancing around their own campfire and we won't be there on the defensive.
I don't ever believe in censorship but I wouldn't even mind if only Tbone posted on that forum for a while on all of our behalf and only where he saw necessary. But it's just my thought that after seeing the kind of heat I saw there this morning, we should just boycott that forum entirely for a while and see if it cools down.
-
in regards to not being respected on the general forums... it does seem to be the same ones leading it over and over again. upon my acceptance into FA, i knew that i would inherit the flack given to us. thats why the question regarding how we would deal with is was asked during the interview. at that time tho, the biggest flack we had was with the collective. and then when they decided to change thier mind, and go to method everyone of us knew that something would step in to take over the rivalry. in this case, its about 10 forum trolls leading it. while the collective kept it mainly to ingame, these hypocrites tend to not be so civil.
i missed this weekend's events due to it being my girlfriend's birthday. so i dont know what the whole shaper event is. however im confident that we played the best we knew how to. everyone that is criticizeing is looking at the situation from the outside. they dont know what was being said on teamspeak, the tactics being used. the teamwork that was involved. maybe just taking a step back from always being on the defensive will do some good.
-
They don't know the kind of organization that goes into this organization, they probably shouldn't.. let them think we're all hacking the Monolith database to succeed.. don't let them know that during this event, and due to different time zones and caffeine for 24-hour cycles, we had a team dedicated to farming frags, a team dedicated to preventing the other sides from turning the frags in, an investigative team dedicated to trying to decifer the keywords given to us by the live event team and a team that was supposed to be studying for an embryology final (oh shit that was supposed to be me).
If you look already, by us not defending ourselves they have already started to turn on each other.. they're like piranhas, literally. Obviously, we're their favorite target due to their playerhating of our organization but when we're not around.. look what they do to each other:
http://mxoboards.warnerbros.com/forums3/thread.jspa?threadID=2037&tstart=0
Look and laugh.
You should also see how people are defending us in our stead. There's a guy named Pauleh who's been real cool about telling people to lay off the flaming and handle things different. Not to mention that the thread Psych started which he directed at Monolith but secretly wanted to turn into a FA roast has turned into a "Psych, quit whining" thread.
Do we still have people who would actually use the /grovel emote to join our faction? Yep. Is there a line of pending interviews? Yep. Do people want to be our allies? Yep. Do people still just come up to you to /bow or /wave or something just to get your attention when they don't even know you? Yep.
Just because this shitstorm of a board, which does consist of literally 30 daily posters, has a negative view on us doesn't mean we've lost the community. Ignore the boards for a week and count the positive vs negative experiences you have in game that are purely because of your alliance to this magnificent organization and then reasses if you think the community really hates us.
I, for one, am convinced that it's just the annoying group of whiners who troll the Enumerator section of the boards because they are actually getting the attention of others and for too long did we, myself definately included, stoop to their level.
-
We will only gain respect by the community when we first respect the community. We already do this (or should if not already).
Just remember the Golden Rule. By setting the example, others will step up and the maturity level of the entire server (minus the childish flamers) will step up with us and follow us to a Zion victory on Enumerator.
:)
-
As said before it is always the same people as before. If you go read the threads that have been brought up it seem that the flames have already died down. The few that haven't are just turning on each other. Mek has already withdrawn the full statement on MatrixDojo. (As well as took out the comment section to headlines.) So go team and <soupnazi>NO POST FOR YOU</soupnazi>
-
I for one could care less what this community thinks anymore. From day one I have helped all that I could and had a kind word for anyone I talked to. Where did that get me? All I care about is how we see ourselves. We need to take a good look in the mirror. I agree with both Likwid and Cortico's earlier posts in this thread. Some things have seemed to change since launch and I feel it is important that we reitterate on what helped make this faction what it is today. However, I also feel it would be a mistake to cater to the demands of fags that flame us everyday in the forums. Anyone with common sense can see these guys are flame baiting. Maybe something needs to be said, but let's do it on our own terms, not as a result of being "called out" by a jealous forum troll. WE WILL NEVER BE LIKED BY EVERYONE. Maybe hard to swallow for some of you, but hey, that's life. What is important is that we remain true to ourselves and our ideals. DO NOT START BELIEVING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY ABOUT US. We all know what this faction is about. Perhaps we lost sight of that in this case, but we are all still good honest gamers. This wouldn't have even been half the issue it has become if we weren't in the spotlight all the time. The pressures of community scrutiny can be trying. I hope we can ALL remain strong and stand as one faction/ one opinion on this matter. It is key that we stand together. That's my word.
-
From Aether in Psys thread this doesnt sound good:
Contrary to some of the opinions shared in this thread, the concerns posted to the forums are taken quite seriously.
We are aware of the accusations that a technical glitch may have allowed players an unfair advantage during Saturday's Shaper event. We are currently investigating the situation and once we have definitive data, we will act appropriately to rectify the situation.
Please be advised that any goals that were achieved with unfair advantage will be considered null, and removed from the overall score.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and we look forward to a timely resolution of the matter.
Aether
Community Events Lead
-
I haven't been on in a few days - sure sounds like an FA or group cheated. Any official word on the events for in-faction members who wern't around?
-
Ok, I think I might just boycott them completely.
All the noteworthy posts go unnoticed anyway.
FA is still on top. Just look at how much people be on our "jock" and "hating"... lol
Not to mention the PATH, people are piling in.
Those who don't like us, well, I guess they need to restock their medication. Nothing more, I couldn't care less anymore if someone is pissed off. Forums always end up this way. Personally, I would ban any trolls.
-
and how many times last night while you guys were trying to lead around the shapers where people arguing about rezzing?
"/suicide then let someone rez you"
"no, that's an exploit"
"well wait til you die then"
"no, it's still an exploit."
and you all did it anyway. then you finally made use of poor low level yoyo, who you had been ignoring 100% prior to that time. glad i got left behind last night. it was a cheap way to get what you wanted. your "brainstorming" room turned into mush, you guys had no plan, everytime someone suggested something they were ignored. i don't blame that person for posting that.
-
They did that to Yoyo?! I enjoy working with him, leveling, farming, running missions. We're only two levels apart (unless he made 11 last night) and he's practically the only other person in FA that I've gotten to know that isn't over level 16.
Once we begin exploiting ourselves for faction advantage, we loose our own community and all is lost. What the story characters have all said applies to everyone. Once we all start working together, the common goal will become clear and the path will be there to follow.
Put it in comparison to our own challenge. The path is there, but in our case, we must work together in order to see it.
-
This is in no means saying that I want to leave the faction, seeing as I'm addicted to you knuckleheads X3
But, in all honesty, I'm fucking tired of hearing about how "FA ruins the community". Yes, we resurrected someone wo died, big fucking deal. If they didn't want players to rez other players, the fucking skill wouldn't be there. And besides, we were all just spamming /shakehands , how could we have known that in the 50-100 people standing around the shaper at any given time would have been someone that was rezzed?
AND if they really wanted to use their fucking heads for once, they would have used Bottleneck Field, Stun, Code Freeze, or any of the other things that cause Stun, Root, Etc. on the person who was "invincible". Not that hard. It's called strategy. Stop the fucking bitching, and use your head. This is war. You do what you have to to survive. We're not going to bake brownies, and let the Machines "borrow" a shaper, tell them to be home before dark, and go about making dinner. NO, we're gonna stomp any little squiddie or froggie who gets in our way.
On the subject of the recycling bug, yes, we found it. We reported it on the DAY we found it. We stopped doing it until we got a reply, which was "Go ahead, it's not an exploit, it's just a strategic way of doing it", so we picked up the pace, and hit the grinder. Then we got a message back saying it was an exploit, accounts suspended, etc etc. And we have stopped doing it.
Anywho, now that that's all out, I'm sorry, but seeing as that was going to be a rather large outburst of mine on the MxO forums, I figured I could just get out all out here :)
However, yes, I am getting tired of doing something legitimately, busting our asses for a goal, and then have people claim we're cheating, exploiting, and that we did it easily because we're such a high level. Yeah, I remember what TeamSpeak sounded like last night. Orders being barked, coordinates being relayed, requests for rez, field reports of opposing operatives on sight. It was insane.
And I must have died like 15 times all within the first two shaper deliveries because of all the hackers bombarding the area with destructive AOE.
I wish people would understand that although we do win almost every single time, it's because we busted our asses, giving it everything we had to win. It was far from a cakewalk
-
I agree with Omegus, I could not care less what is thought about us on those Forums. I have been through alot of MMO forums, and this is easily one of the worst, particularly in regards to dev moderation. Despite the constant FA flaming and hating I read on the forums, I rarely see that carried over into the actual game. I still get alot of respect from the passing players I meet, even alot of our enemies for the most part. The only forums I care about anymore are these, right here.
I honestly am not completely sure how I feel about last night's event. It is easy to get caught up in the moment but in retrospect I have a few doubts about how the whole thing went down. But be that as it may, we still have to consider that we are playing an unfinished product. This game that we are now paying to play, is far from a complete client and is run by a half-assed dev team. Though we were discussing the option of dying and rezzing, the one player we did end up having the shaper follow to the goal had honestly died and was honestly rezzed. We did not start talking about it in hearnest until we realized that it was happening. There is no reason the devs should not have foresaw the idea that perhaps some people are going to want to rez their fellow comrades, and perhaps someone who was rezzed may still want to participate in this event. This does not excuse us from talking about exploiting this, but the case in question for the actual score was an honest, "Oh shit your dead? One sec, I will pick you up." "Hey, thanks let me go back to trying to get this shaper, oh hey wtf? I am untouchable."
Furthermore, from the best we could tell that shaper had a person playing behind him. How does a dev controlling an event character not see something that blatantly obvious? Since the devs are having us run these events on a buggy client that can hardly even handle the load, it is their job to try and work around the bugs they have yet to fix. I see no reason why that shaper could not see what was happening, stop, and say that he had to follow someone else. I do not even know if we could have handed the shaper off to someone else, once he followed someone he did so until that person died for the most part.
It is important that we judge our actions amongst ourselves, without any outside influence. We are all humans and we make mistakes, and we will continue to grow because of them. However given our position of power within this community, it is easy to shoulder more blame or fault then we may actually deserve. Many of the problems we have been having recently, from the mission recycle to not paying as much attention to our lower lvl players, can be traced back to the fact that we are trying like mad to keep up with a broken game(with bad CSR) that, instead of starting off slow to work out the kinks, is steaming full force forward and is damn close to leaving even our hardest working players behind.
The important part is that we as a community, our own little community outside of the entire enumerator community, stand together to get us through these times and into the times when we will be playing in a stable client, where our top brass has gotten to where they need to be and can concentrate the non-story event time on assisting the lower lvls, and maybe, just maybe, we have a CSR team that can give us the service we need and perhaps even(ok this may be pushing it) moderate the forums and get involved in the community.
-
ok not to sound like a total idiot, i just want a play by play on wtf happened that night?!?! jesus crist lol ive never seen so many posts hating us than right now, wtf just happened?!? all i really got was rez then we were untouchable...wat!? i agree with professor, dev and csr team need to pick it up a couple of notches to get off their ass and work at this game, its got potential but if we have players that are able to just post this random bs on the forums....my god! sorry i just saw like 5 posts right at the top as i went into enumerator....so if someone can explain to me what happened. thanx
-
I too would love to hear what's up. I'm totally lost and have only been gone about 27 hours. This is my only complaint of MxO, you aren't ingame for a day or 2 and you can really fall behind on what the hell is going on.
-
You know what, it doesn't matter anymore. What happen, happened. The shit hit the fan and now we are the scape goat for taking all of the crap. The CSR can’t back us up because it seems they show too much favoritism to us already. (Because we did this legit and turn in CSR reports.) The dev’s and WBIE/Monolith have fucked us over because they did release a half assed product. These bugs, whether used intentionally or unintentionally, ruined the game for a lot of people. The Merv’s and Mach’s for losing and us for having to take all of this crap. (The only people who are winning right now is the rest of Zion.) Did we exploit? No matter what excuses or reasons we can come up with, yes we did. As of now there is nothing we can do about it. Am I pissed because now I have to look over my shoulder and give reasons for everything we do? Hell yes. I decided to make today my staying out of the game and TeamSpeak server day, as well as bump my 6 month long subscription to MxO to a one month subscription. As everything is going down right now, MxO is going to earn the rank of another SWG.
The only thing we can do is take this like a human and accept what we have done. The only suggestions I can think to fix the problem rather then fueling are all bunk. There is nothing we can do about it but wait and see what the CSRs decide to do with us. The rest of the community can hopefully forgive us in time, but I find that unlikely. So yes the shit hit the fan and everything is fucked and guess what. We can’t do a damn thing to fix it.
-
Story of what happened.
Orcale told us that shapers where the only people that could reconstruct Neo's RSI.
A few hours later Niobe told us that the Shapers are around and that they need to be lead into Subways.
About 20 minutes later we got a system message saying that a Shaper is at X, Y, Z.
We all go there, find and see this Shaper. After basically being told be the Shaper we found we needed to shake his hand and he would follow us.
We shook his hand we started to lead his to the nearest subway and had to redirect to the subway he wanted to go to.
While leading him, Jokerz and other faction were following and trying to kill us.
[Start shit storm]
The others did kill a few of us, we rezzed those who had fallen. (It turns out that you are NON PVPable once you been rezzed until you fight or type /pvp. Did we know about this? Yes, for the most part.)
We then just started spamming /shakehands with the Shaper and whoever got it first would start leading the Shaper to his subway.
(The first time, I think, we did this clean. The second time, Tbone, who was just rezzed got the Shaper. The third time, we had burncycle (level 11[right?-eroz] AKA unPVPable) lead him.)
Now in the aftermath the mach's and Merv's are pissed because we won using a glitch in the system at least once if not twice, if not three times over. This in turn has caused us to turn on ourselves and have to be on the defensive about fricking everything.
-
I'm sorry... but i do believe it needs to be pointed out... than all of the posts flaming out are by known trolls, exploiters and enemies of zionists... at this point it seems to me that this is a cheap tactic to eliminate the compition... i bet you money if FA was banned they'ed start up on the next zion faction down the line.
-
In regards to the missions cycling, I think we handled that in the best way possible. None of that was our fault.
Last night was a mess and it will probably haunt us for a while. What it boils down to is the situations that occurred made us look really bad, and we probably should have made a bigger effort to avoid it.
The goal was to get this guy to shake your hand and lead him to a subway. The whole time, however, you were under attack by the opposing organizations. We were smart enough to have a rezzer ready and even had him invisible so that he'd be ok. I was leading our first goal when I got attacked and died. I was rezzed and was able to get back to him and shake his hand again and lead him the rest of the way. Shortly after the first goal I realized I wasn't attackable. Turns out the rez "non-pvp" effect never wore off. I don't know if it's supposed to be that way or not.
It was quickly brought up that this could be used to our advantage - we could /suicide and rez. I told everyone not to do this, and it was agreed we would not take advantage of it. We battled out for our second goal, but in the end it was someone who had died in battle and been rezzed that got him to the subway. In this instance, we should have tried to do something different, but we didn't.
The third time we were once again battling out and burncycle got the guy to shake his hand. Burncycle is level 10, so his PvP flag was not turned on.
None of it was planned but it happened. We probably should have taken more steps to avoid it but we didn't. Now we're dealing with the consequences. We didn't purposefully cheat, but in the end it was a cheap bug or method that secured the goals. In one way we were a victim of the way the PvP system is currently setup - in another way we probably could have taken more steps to keep from ending up using the cheap way.
-
I will say a few words because I've encountered this very issue in each and every gaming team/group I've run.
Before I start, I am not saying here that member(s) purposely did anything wrong, but the following is why we should be very conscious of how we play because as proven here, even unintentionally actions can have a lasting negative effect.
We cannot get so caught up in the moment and/or caught up in the race to be bigger, better, faster, stronger.....or whatever, that we allow our standards to slide and our character to come into question. We cannot be willing to compromise the reputation of our faction to get ahead and expect people to respect us.....for what? Being able to kick ass in a faction battle? Respect require much more than that. Looking for short cuts and easy ways to "get the job done" is doing exactly that: compromising the reputation of FA.
I may not say much, but I listen in on discussions, conversations and chatter on TS more than you think. I hear alot of people making excuses for actions we probably should have stayed away from in the first place. Staying away from even the appearance of exploiting is just as important as not blatantly exploiting. As you noticed, even the mere mention or appearance of doing anything dishonest, in game, brought on a shit storm that probably could have been avoided had we stopped to think, "Ok, this seems like a loop hole or a short cut that gives us an advantage that was not intended by the game designing team. Before we use it AT ALL, we may want to point it out and clarify with the gaming staff and get an official word on it."
True, some of our members have been unjustly treated, even by the gaming staff and FA, as a whole has taken some undue flaming, but it all stems from how we initially handled each of these situations. Bottom line is that we need to take responsibility for our part in this whole mess and I dare say that that part is much bigger than any of us would like to admit. We need to make sure it doesn't happen again because it is very easy to lose a good reputation, but is is extremely difficult to lose a bad reputation. We can blame this all on the community and how they handled it, and in many cases, we'd be correct. However, this community is no different than any other community and we should know what to expect from people given the circumstances. This should have surprised no one.
Another thing that people notice is that we have this horrific brain buster of a screening process for potentials to prove that they mentally, have what it takes to join the Angels, we spout all this philosophical mumbo jumbo at them, in the name of a faction with a higher purpose, but does this actually carry over into how we play the game? or do we only pull it out when its convenient for us? Do even we, ourselves, even believe this whole spiel that we give our potentials? If so, then lets prove it by our actions and methods of playing in-game. One of the things I kept hearing last night was that we didn't think about it at the time, how it could be construed, we weren't purposely trying to use a game flaw....etc...etc.... Well, we, as Furious Angels, need to start thinking about this stuff before the fact. Any time you have a good thing going that attracts lots of attention, you live in a glass house and under a microscope. This may not be how it SHOULD be, but that is how it is. If we want to keep this good thing going, we will have to learn how to deal with everything that comes with it (good and bad) in a manner that allows us to maintain our good reputation and our dignity.
Be proud to be an Angel, but always keep a measure of humility as well. We should take care not to come off as arrogant pricks.
I am enjoying being an FA member and I'll be here for the ups as well as the downs, but we need to always be conscious that our actions are representative of the image that FA's leadership has given us to uphold.
For now, we should do as Tbone has said and not feed the trolls in game or out of game.
To better days ahead, for the Angels....
-
To better days ahead.....
-
I'm sorry but... im not the kind of person who can keep his mouth shut... if I am to be punished for it so be it...
-
Damn Hindsight.
-
I guess we just will have to wait to see what Aether says.
-
Thia faction has grown completely out of control.
We are no longer organized. Last night was the best example. When Sevker was here, one of his very first posts was regarding TS and how it should be run. I believe Tbone even made it a sticky. It is obvious that no one reads it because no one follows it. On TS, sure, there are times for goofing off and pointless chatter. In events like last night, however, there was no organization. It was the messiest pile of crap I have ever heard in the 9 or so months that I've been here. And that's just TS!!
Teaming up with people is bullshit to anyone anymore. I'm talking to all of the people in their high 30s up to the level 50s. We addressed this in a post in the staff room and all we did is yell at each other. People don't care about leveling anymore, they want a place in the storyline. Which brings me to the next issue.
People have gotten big-headed, in everything and every way. Every single one of us is guilty of it, me as well as the next guy. We KNOW that we are a powerful faction, and so we ACT like it. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look around!! Do you see anything but corruption? Look at the recent threads!! How many of them are us bitching at each other, pointless chatter, or giving ourselves big pats on the back? And you wonder why the devs have been "ignoring" us lately? Hell, I don't know how many times during this storyline progression that I have heard on TS or seen in faction chat: "Let's see the devs leave us out NOW!!" ..... how much more egotistical can we get?
Half of the problem I believe is due to the balance of the old vs new members. Generally speaking (there will always be exceptions), we have a handful of old members and an overwhelming bulge of new members. Of the old members, there are a handful who really are those arrogant, stuck up bastards who think of nothing but themselves, and they know it, and they don't care. Why do you think so many people have left after being here for several months? Of the new members, half of them have no clue what is going on, while the other hald see what the old members do and try to mimic them, thinking it will gain them some spot in the faction, and for some it does.
How can we be pulling in so many new members and telling them all of these great things about us ("We are positive gamers," "We care more about maturity than age," etc.) when we are falling apart on the inside?!? For the most part, TS is rarely used for actual gaming purposes. It's used for pointless chatter and for flaming people behind their backs. I have heard so many people talk smack about other members that it makes me not want to have anything to do with them. Pride is the first and most dangerous of the Seven Deadly Sins, and it is tearing this faction limb from heart. Before we "get on those interviews" and keep reeling in "fresh meat," we need to start stitching up our own problems and talk to people we have direct issues with face to face, not behind their backs on TS where "they'll never know."
The "laid-back" attitude of this faction has left it in nothing but shambles. I'm not talking military preciseness, but we need to have more organization and more control over OURSELVES than we do now. People bark orders at each other and yell and bitch and whine and complain, and it does NOTHING. Get off your asses, look around, stop talking about each other and DO something about it. We're a fucking mess.
-
I'm accually going to have to agree with grim on this one... Although I am a reletivly new member... I have seen a downfall... There is a lack of organization... and a change in attitudes as well... I believe that this is partly in fault of stress over the grind of leveling, farming frags, flamebaiting in the forums and in game... and the lack of moral... We need to seriously get our butts back in line... I know im just a regular member of FA... not a captain or a staff memeber... but you guys gotta get your heads together before we fall apart
-
I was thinking the same things grim, just didn't have those words to say it.
-
Since I'm one of the noobs, I thought I'd be nice, but I think we needed the slap in the face that grim just put down.
-
Yup, some things need fixing, no doubt. Broin and I were talking before the event last night about setting up some new things. Seriously, if you guys have a problem just talk about it. Don't wait until we're at our lowest point and then decide to kick us in the face. Some of you have approached me privately which is why we've been trying to change some of our methods (mainly how we integrate new members). Let's try to keep a positive outlook on this and work on improving ourselves instead of tearing ourselves down.
-
I can't explain how happy that grim has brought this out in the open. It's something I've wanted to say for a while, but since most people don't really know me and I'm probably still considered a noob, wouldn't really be taken to heart. I've tried expressing my opinions to those I thought could understand the situation and do something about it, but it only seemed to get worse. I thank you grim for putting it as blunt as possible, I probably would have tried to fluff it up a bit so it didn't look too negative...but nonetheless, well said.
I hope we can resolve some of our internal problems soon so we can go back to being the FA I grew to know and admire during the last couple months of beta.
-
Grim i so agree with you and I really didnt fell like saying it because the same reason as benevolence. I mean im guilty with alot of the stuff thats going on to but damn there is some of us who are friggin filled with this thought thinking that the devs owe us somthing and all this other bullshit. I mean sometimes a unknown faction will ask us for a meeting or somthing and I reamember a specific metting and hearing in TS about people constantly saying lets just leave these n00bs and get back to doing somthing else. If thats not nonFA like i dont know what is. But to be honest i do see alot of it coming from our "higher up" or vetern people but not all of it i just see the most of it coming from a few of them. I dont have a issue with any specific people. But there is a few that are cool at times then they just become egotistical. I mean come on this is a VIDEO GAME. yes a game this is not real life.Also being a game there is fierce competition but that doesnt mean anyone needs to get a big head or more of this shit will start happening again till eventually we will be RIP in everyones eyes I already see that happening and some people have even stratight up said it. It is awesome to have a good group of people to be associated with and to team up with but damn dont ruin it by being stuck up or egotistical.
-
Hovercrafts are the key, we must allow groups to be led by captains, and the captians to receive orders from Tbone.
I think if we can start doing this, it creates squads, rather than just a big army that gets out of control.
We must break people down into managable groups otherwise there will never be control.
It is interesting tho, during Beta the story line was not so present, and the community events were more so, at which point we had no problems. Now we have grown, and there is real competition for all events, we need to hone our roles.
-
I want to say, I have grouped with most of you now and I have seen the good and the bad. I agree with what Grim has to say here. Although no one likes to hear things that hurt, I think it needed to be said too.
Now I know there will always be higher levels, I think I play quite a lot but I'm still just 27. I do wish we had a little more organization not just with teams but with information. You wouldn't believe how many times I have jumped onto team speak to hear a topic, ask about it and then get silence or someone saying oh no not this again. Well since I never heard it in the first place and I'm interested in the subject I ask, however lately I just end up being quiet because it seems to anger people if I would like clarification on something. Again this isn't everyone, but it is a vocal minority.
I can imagine how intimidating Teamspeak is to new members or people who don't not speak well in a group or are a little shy. If we were all a little kinder in Teamspeak I think we would have alot more participation from the newer members. Again this is my 2 cents take it for what you will, I have only been in this team from day one of the 3 day head start.
Also one suggestion I have so as not to ask the repetitive questions in teamspeak that everyone doesnt want to hear. Maybe we could add something to the website if we dont already have it like a coder items list. There are many items im sure I don't have which could be better then what I am using, and of course I'm not just asking people to make me things for nothing. I have a ton of red frags, and info I would be more then willing to give it to coders in exchange for items. I just think if there was a list where we could say this is what we need and what do you need to make it for us it might be easier then asking in game.
I'm sure no one likes to be inturrupted from what they are doing to code something for somone. This way if you are posting it the coder could make it when they had time and let you know when it was done.
Overall I like this faction very much, but I would like to see more of a team atmosphere. One last thing, I want to say is I do hear much chatter about other team memebers on Teamspeak and I just want everyone to think, would you want something you are saying about an individual getting back to them?
Some people have thick skins and others do not, so think before you speak, you never know who might be close with that individual you are talking about.
-
"The grind" is always a stressful time. There are less team events and more of just running missions. As everyone gets to a level they are comfortable out, the stress will even out and we'll settle back in to where we were before. The last beta wipe was a stressful grind as well. I think that's just the nature of the grind. As for talking shit, yeah, I hate negativity as well. I'm guilty of it too sometimes, but we seriously gotta stay positive and make an effort to get to know the new guys. We're working on a few things, so yay...
-
grim's right, and we should make a separate thread for this one... so everyone can see this...
-
I Think that too.
-
Maybe You should Sticky another Topic For it>?
-
I'll also have to agree with Archon on his points as well. TS is not a very friendly place to newer members or those who haven't been around a lot of the veteran members. Hell I can barely get a word in when I have something to say, I'm always being talked over or answered with complete silence. I'm not one of the most outgoing people in the faction, but I do have information to share every now and then, but if it doesn't come from one of the older members, no one seems to care.
I do see that TS has also become a place for general discussions even while in game and it's hard to organize anything with a mission team or the faction when this extra conversation is going on (let alone trynig to get a word in over hot mics). I think it's wiser for mission teams to move to their own channel and to have the ordinary chat in the specified channels (yes, TS channels still do have descriptions). Or even the concept of using the hovercraft channels for meetings with the crew or the actual crews running missions together.
I just feel that TS is very busy and unorganized to the point that no one without a big voice can be heard and we lose all logical communication with each other during an event because of people whining about being in combat and killed. I see that Tbone is working with the other captains and such to adjust a few things to make it better, hopefully, but I just thought I'd elaborate on Archon's point a little to point out what I'm seeing when I step into TS.
-
hey benevolence if you want to say somthing do what some of us do and just yell where no one can hear everyone else and then they only hear you. everytime its been done its worked as far as i have heard it has. but yeah i know what you mean with the prob with that but thats a soloution for now.
-
please stop posting in the boards guys... its just making it worse
-
Agreed, let us just avoid the boards for awhile longer. We have already seen how they attack each other when we are not there, let them do that for a bit more before we jump back in.
-
I'll agree with benevolence on what he has said. I actually have been in the faction for about 3 months, I believe more like 5 total including my first time around in beta. And how many people can actually say they know me. And by that I mean.. actually know me. Not "Oh, I've seen his name."
The reason I'm bringing this up is because sometimes it just comes down to being accepted. I feel like no matter how hard I try to make friends in the faction I really haven't. Now that doesnt mean that noone has been friendly. To name a few, Tivod and Broin have been very helpful. (Those are just the ones off my head, I know I've teamed with Gabe and Khr0n1k before too, so dont get upset if I let your name out.) But when it comes down to it I just get the clique feeling from most of the members. I also have noticed that some of the newer members are extremely nice for the first couple of days I see them, (or for the 2 that i talked to before they were even excepted, before they get in) then result to just ingnoring me whenever I'm on after that. Now, I'm guessing it is due to the fact that I am not part of the "popular" group (those being the apparent "power" players in the faction.) But I am a part of the faction.
I guess it's just upsetting when you sign online, see some of your crew members in your crew's TS. Join the channel say "Hello" to everyone in the channel and dont get a reply. Your first thought is "maybe everyone is AFK or have their mic's off." But 99% of the time, a minute later, even seconds, someone will say something on TS and everyone will just join in a conversation. Example, I joined TS 2 days ago, said "Morning guys, how's everyone doing ?" Got not even a "Yo". No less than a minute later, I believe it was Tivod that joined the channel, simply said "Yo" and had almost everyone in the channel say ATLEAST "Hey tivod whats up?" If not a "How are you?" Whatcha doin' " How's your mom" or something along those lines. (LoL, maybe not "How's your mom" but you get the point.) Now this may sound very miniscule (I spelt that wrong I know) to most, but for those of us who are geniunly trying to make friends in faction, it means alot. Just like I was trying to ask peoples opinion on TS about what they thought of the RSI frags, as far as is there a time limit or what. Noone answered. I then spoke through tell's with someone ingame about the same thing, told him what I thought, (Which was that there isnt a TIME limit, but possibly a set number of them, whoever collects the most out of lets say a million frags, wins and the event is over.)he in turn asked the TS channel, and everyone commenced in a discussion about it. Then, I put my thoughts into it, and while I was speaking had atleast 3 people just jump in and interrupt me while I was talking and go about their own conversation. At the end of what I had to say, eithern noone heard me, or I was ignored, because it was as if I never said anything.
But enough ranting, I think Tbone know's whats up and is working on a way to help fix the problem :) And for that I commend you. But just for the rest of the guys out there, lets try and make this more like a family, and less like a highschool.
-
Well guys, I want to say my piece on this thread...I finally got around to reading it all...
First, I agree whole heartedly with Grim. She hit the nail on the coffin. And what I am about to say is rude, harsh and not my place at all to say, but as a person who cares about this faction, I have some solid ideas, and not just tips. Secondly, Its long...very long....no longer than that...its damn near a book...but please read...it's good stuff.
Here goes:
1: Veteran Members, act like Veteran Members. You are the leaders of the faction, and you need to act like it. It's been said over and over again, but if you consider yourself a vet, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Asking people to stop the chit-chat, asking people to go to the right channels for their conversations, forgetting about leveling for a day and help a lower, new level person level, talking to people as the mature adults that we all claim to be and Making EVERY new member feel welcome and part of the group is ALL part of being a leader. Step up or sit down.
2: USE the In-game chat box for small talk! Yes, it takes longer to type....yes, its annoying, and yes people may not see EVERY word you type. But if people start using it more, it will become more valuable...hence, more people look at it. TeamSpeak is a wonderful tool in-game, but it SHOULD NOT take the place of in-game chat.
3: Battle Chat (or whatever name you want to call it...my old clan called it Battle Chat): Simple idea...TS has three levels 1) Free Talk....say whatever you want, whenever you want. 2) Moderate Battle Chat...Only pertinent info.....Only people who can freely talk are the leaders. Not following the rule means risking the infamous mute button. 3) True Battle Chat. Basically the same as Moderate, but to talk, you gotta get "permission" i.e. saying "Channel Break"...leader replies "Go" and you say what you want....leader replies "denied" and you type it out or just wait til later.
I know it sounds annoying, unnecessary and mean, but it fixes a LOT of TS problems, and it gets the team to work together.
4: Crews becoming the bigger component of FA. What this means is although we are all FA members, instead of all of us working out of the Loading Dock on TS, we NATURALLY go to our Crew's Channel. Our Captains let us know what is going on, and the Captains as well as Tbone and a select few others have the ability to converse to each other while in different channels, and they all work together to pass info down rank. Basically, less reliance on Tbone to lead everyone as much as Relying on Tbone to lead the Captains who lead the rest.
5: Ranked Crews. Basically, you have a Starter Crew...a captain and FM all dedicated to getting new players introduced to FA. Then you have an Intermediate Crew. Players who have the basic idea of FA, but not fully developed for full rank. Finally, you have True Ships/HoverCrafts. Basically what we have now.
I have more to say on this topic, so look for the post.
6: FA-oriented events for FA members. Red Frag Search Parties, disco nites, Radio Nights, Contests and other In Faction games. Basically, things that say we don't need to have a story line to have fun. Also, things that ALL FA members can do. FA community needs to be stronger.
7: An understanding that if there is a conflict, bringing it up and out EXACTLY when it happens is the preferred way to take care of it. To implement this you need a few things. People other than Tbone with authority to make a decision about FA. I am not saying people don't, or aren't. But I hear too many times "Wait til Tbone gets on" and not enough..."Let's solve this now." Also, There needs to be an understanding that YOU will not agree with everyone 100% of the time. Hell, you might get pissed of at me or someone else from time to time.........it happens. Just because someone is pissed at something today, doesn't mean they have bad attitudes, or it should be placed over their head all the time. Work it out...then forget about it. In other words, too many comments being made behind other people....we need to start being more open.
8: Our Alliance List is too short and KOS is too Long. I'm not saying that we got to be buddies with every faction, and I am not saying that there are not a lot of assholes out there. I am simply saying, we need to have more people in our corner, and we are not nearly powerful enough to take on all the other factions by ourselves. Yes, some other Zion Factions are assholes...yes their leaders are dimwits...they might have some nice members though. Just so you know, you don't have to EXPLICITLY level with FA members. and if a group isn't forming...why not try a few non-members...show we aren't elitists....
9: Everyone needs to listen more and talk less. Many of you know that when I play, unless I am in my rare mood, I talk VERY little when I am missioning. There have been times when people have even forgot I was in game or on TS. I am not saying EVERYONE SHUT THE HELL UP AND DON'T TALK AGAIN..I am simply saying go ONE day without saying what is only necessary or needed. You'll see that a lot of people would gain if less talking went on.
10: Last one. This one has two parts. First, Everyone understands that we are all on the same ground. NOONE is more "important" or "more valuable" than the next. Even the Captains and other Leaders..they are one in a collection of many. In a vote, my vote should not have any more weight or value than Tbone's (as an example) or vice versa. Secondly, It's true. Prove it, Show it, and Know it. We got to work on this one....
well that's it from yoda....sorry if you didn't like it, but hey...i warned ya.