The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Tbone on May 17, 2005, 06:34:56 pm
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Right, so I'm reading up on the "Character Migration" thread in this forum and watched as it became more about PvP vs. non-PvP. In responding to the issues, I came up with an idea which I think may work quite well to keep the faction unified yet appeal to our diverse tastes.
The issue is that some people are really geared towards PvP and fighting while others are more concerned with the social atmosphere and the roleplay. At first I thought the solution might be to just tolerate our differences, but now I'm thinking the solution might be to EMBRACE them. Here's the idea, which has a lot of flexibility:
We form two units in the faction. One unit is a specialized strike team, geared towards tactical PvP. The other unit is more like political heads who work as reps for the faction and work in social events, alliances, and communication (all revolving around roleplay). These units could be volunteer or we could re-divide ships based on these units (i.e. three ships are part of the PvP unit while the other three are part of the Rep unit). Both units would play vital roles in the faction and would have very specific objectives or missions. Basically each unit would have a forum, a teamspeak channel, and other resources. Here's some examples of missions and such I came up with.
PvP Unit
Mission: Our long time enemies, The Collective, are rumored to have started building an army on Enumerator. They are trying to level up soldiers to prepare for battle against us. Find these secret levelling teams and take them out. Let them know that they must fight to earn their rank when they play with the big boys.
Mission: A group known as Rebirth of Eden is rumored to be transferring characters to Enumerator. They were known for their ganking on the Heuristic server. Find them and destroy them. We need them to know early on that they are no longer top dogs. Also, find out if they are Machinist or Merovingian, because that is not known at this time.
Rep Unit
Mission: Rumors have been going around that the Furious Angels are switching to Merovingian. Squash these rumors. Let fellow Zion supporters know that FA has and always will be for Zion! Also, search for clues as to where this rumor stemmed from. Report back with any information you obtain.
Mission: Zion needs organization. As of now there are two known attempts to organize: the Zion Relay and a new organization formed by a few newer Zion factions. Seek out information about both of these organizations. Find out how near completion it is and whether it is worth getting involved in.
Mission: Several factions have expressed an interest in allying with FA. I have the following names as representatives for the following factions. *names and factions*. Please contact these operatives and maintain friendly relations. Get to know more about them and their organizations and report back regularly with your impressions.
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As you can see, there is potential to have a lot of important missions to keep us busy. Each unit's forum might have a sticky thread for members to submit missions requests. The Staff or appointed individuals would then sift through and determine which missions are worth making official or we could vote on it. Also, another sticky would be in place to contest these decisions. For instance... :
Mission: Destroy Rebirth of Eden
Suggestion: Abort Mission
Reason: I don't feel we know enough about this group to start attacking them as soon as they get in the server. Perhaps it would be wiser to send the Rep Unit in to learn more about them first. It just seems to hasty a decision - we should at least see how they will act in our server first.
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Aside from these missions, these units would also prepare for spur of the moment action. Here are examples of those:
PvP Unit
Situation: An enemy has just attacked one of our own. There are at least 5 hostiles who attacked our coder. Assistance is required immediately to eradicate the problem. Go in and teach the griefers a lesson!
Rep Unit
Situation: A faction that we have a cease fire with just attacked one of our lower levels out of the blue. Report to the location and try to talk to the other faction. Find out why they attacked and how it can be solved. If the faction in question refuses to talk about it, prepare the PvP Unit.
These situations would not be typed out anywhere - it would just happen and the appropriate unit would respond. In my mind, those sort of situations would take priority, with typed out missions taking second priority.
As for leveling, a third unit (that wouldn't really be a unit) could be in place called "Training". It might even be a sub-unit of the PvP unit. In theory, most interested in the roleplay unit wouldn't be as interested in leveling, while the PvP unit would be divided between those who have leveled up and those still trying to level. This is something that can be worked out, I believe, but I wanted to go ahead and get the idea out there. So...what do you guys think?
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Oh, and all of this takes a back seat for storyline events. Storyline events will take priority despite what unit you are in and what mission you are focused on.
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Thumbs up!!
I might suggest that hovercraft teams can apply for strike missions; I think the use of hovercrafts (in game, as your team) should be used more
:)
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I like the idea of have two different Teams within FA so that people who are more RP base the can go to one team and the ones who like PvP can go to the other.
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Excellent idea! And I'm down for either team as I both enjoy the social/rp and pvp aspects of the game.
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This is an AWSOME idea. Nothing other than that.
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im seriously excited about this. wonderful idea. now everyone can do what they like best.
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And that's why your the boss... Sounds good and I think it'll work great
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Awesome Ideas!!
*2 Thumbs Up!*
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I really like the idea, however, I must comment on one thing. One being a PvP player doesn't mean that you can't also be big into RP. I plan on doing both. I'd actually like to see more of the PvPers at least do some light RP style playing. It shouldn't be ALL nmbers and learning to manipulate the game systems. But I do like the idea very much. Who knows, maybe with those that wish, they can be involved in a little of both.
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I propose another group for vetern members that would like nothing more than to sit around on TS all day and feed off the complements of others and bask in our own self-glory. We could have Omegus appreciation days and play games like who can kiss Omegus's ass the best/longest. I am open to suggestions.
*Huh...what? You're kidding*
Well is appears that some people think my ideas are crap. Ah well, then I guess I support Tbone's ideas. Good job chief.
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Please clarify, but I assume the concept of PvP & Rep teams is still on Enumerator, not moving the Rep team to another server.
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Yes, this would still be on Enumerator. Almost all of you seem up for the idea, but we're split as to whether or not we should place ships in each group and make it a mandatory decision or make it separate than the ships and a volunteer thing. Discuss!
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I really like the idea T, gives people the option of what they love more. But I also wouldnt feel right making anyone do this so completely volunteer gives people choice. Choice is the problem :) But I do love my ship and would never want to leave it but thank you for coming up with such a great idea :)
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Tbone this is a great Idea may i make a suggestion have mabey a recon unit for a group kind of like a special operations force. We would all be spys and say we need some information about some mervs and we learn about a party then we go in stealth and just sit and listen or say we need a area scouted before we enter call us up and we scout the area for say a meeting for the Rep's I know that you would say that the PvPers are for that. True but wouldnt it be cool if we knew where are enemies were before they knew we were and we should be able to pick the group we are in but make it manditory for us to complete our missions.
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Like Phienyx said, I would like to be part of both a strike team and a RP team. Reason being is because is because I would LOVE to plan and kill enemies in a strike team, but yet when it comes to parties or important meetings, I like to RP by being a bouncer or a spokesman, etc. So yah, I support the idea, but we need to think of a way to somehow work between fighting and RP. :D
As far as spliting up into ships devoted for PvP or roleplaying, uh, i would have to say no because i dont want to feel like i cant roleplay when it comes to political events in the Matrix if im not on a RP ship, and vice versa. Another reason is because I dont want to feel like i can only or be allowed to RP or only fight in PvP battles, especially if they're always in Mara... :'(
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Hmm i like the idea but i personally dont like the ship thing.... I like to do both PVP and RP but i dont want to be placed in a ship for one or another..... But if you do, decide the ship idea you should make a ship for planning events, parties, etc...... I would definlty like to be a part of that.
**this is why i wanted to become an angel...a problem arrives, its dealt with in a mature manor goodjob FA**
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/Salute
Commander TBone, Private Appolithenes sounding off!
I believe that the time for a political front of FA to come forward is now, and your proposal is a prime example of what we can do to form one. However, if this is to work, I feel that your position is your choice, but your completion of your duties is, of course, mandatory. Choose a side and do your job. Its that simple. I feel like no one knows where we stand, while I feel our lines are clearly drawn in the sand. I myself would be honored to take on a diplomatic role in this most honorable army. I believe I speak for many of the Hovercraft Carpe Diem when I say that we are all ready for the challenge. I believe that Captain GrimKitten, and the rest of the Carpe Diem crew could do as good a job as any in this new frontier of the war. Thank you.
/Salute
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These ideas are great, and looking at the posts, I think i see a few people that want to be involved in all ideas put forward, however I'm not sure that would create the essense of the team; like a department in your place of work, your job would be primarily in that area and there wouldn't be much moving around (although I wouldn't say you can't move).
If everyone dips into each team when they feel like it, then the organizational side fails on these ideas. Any comments on this?
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*thumbsup*
IMO, in order for this to work, changes will need to be made.
If the ships/crews are reorganized, things will go alot smoother.
Even if crew members are split because one goes PvP and the other goes Rep, well... you still have FC, TC, TS, and whispers to address that person or group! All you don't have is the crew chat and the crew forums.
IMO, being part of the PvP does not mean you can't RP and vice versa.
The PvP unit can RP even in the heat of battle, I do it all the time like other FA's do, maybe we SHOULD do it more often, hmmmm it should probably be discussed by the PvP unit leaders/organizers.
The PvP unit can RP during parties, Rep does the socializing and bartending (eheh) we do the bouncing ;-) annnnd... even a bouncer goes to the bar for some refreshments, hey you can even try to get the number from that hot chick on the dancefloor,just make sure it's not Nemi...
As for the Rep, you can and you will eventually have to PvP, be it just to defend yourself or during the events. If the PvP unit needs help you CAN, and probably SHOULD, help if possible, as long as doing so does not interfere with your main mission.
Now the important stuff....
so... uh.. can we have a PvP ship dedicated to kill frenchies? :D
no? ehh.. well.. kthxbye :|
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Direct responce to ^
If the PvP team needs assistance, I think they should do no more than ask for assistance, not be forced to respond to something that is not their motif.
I would be joining the Rep team if we decide to do this, and while I don't mind sometimes helping in a fight, I tend to enjoy working with people, not against them. :)
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Now the important stuff....
so... uh.. can we have a PvP ship dedicated to kill frenchies? :D
no? ehh.. well.. kthxbye :|
Desync your a freakin' genius...
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If the PvP team needs assistance, I think they should do no more than ask for assistance, not be forced to respond to something that is not their motif.
Zsinj: I'm sorry, maybe I did not express myself correctly, but what you said, was exactly what I was trying to say :)
As for the Rep, you can and you will eventually have to PvP, be it just to defend yourself or during the events. If the PvP unit needs help you CAN, and probably SHOULD, help if possible, as long as doing so does not interfere with your main mission.
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I personally like the ship idea, just because it helps to group people with like interests and facilitates teamwork within those groups. Most of you hang out in-game with people who have like interests anyway. Why not put you together on a ship with them and make it official? Being placed on a ship full of members that serve the same function as you, is in no way a bad thing. It will actually work out to EVERYONE's advantage. I think that there would probably be more than a couple ships for each area of expertise, so you'd probably have your choice of those ships that serve the purpose that interests you.
Its much more efficient and organized for the "ranking" officer to send, say, the Carpe Diem, as a crew on assignments and strikes together, than to try to randomly find and gather people to do this or that from here or there.
Most likely the people that choose to serve on the PvP ships would do so with the understanding that when their crew is called upon for assignments or reinforcements or for counterstrike and rescue missions, they are expected to respond.
I imagine the other non pvp ships would operate much the same way in their field of expertise.
I think that a little compromise on certain things is necessary to get this idea up and running and I think it will benefit FA greatly in the long run.
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I love this idea, it'd fix a lot of the problems I've been hearing about lately. However one thing I'd like to ask about is how the two teams may communicate. For example, the RP team may find itself in direct conflict with a powerful enemy (Story-wise or other) and may need the PvP team's assistance to take it down.
Right now I've noticed a lot of flat out reluctance to give aid to any story-related events and that concerns me. So while I'm sure the RP team would want to always involve themselves in the story, they may need support from the PvP team at times, so how that would happen may need to be worked out.
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.......being a PvP player doesn't mean that you can't also be big into RP. I plan on doing both. I'd actually like to see more of the PvPers at least do some light RP style playing. It shouldn't be ALL nmbers and learning to manipulate the game systems.
I may be mistaken, but I think FA was founded with RP in mind. (let me know if I'm wrong). Everyone should be willing to RP their part at least a little bit.
.....the people that choose to serve on the PvP ships would do so with the understanding that when their crew is called upon for assignments or reinforcements or for counterstrike and rescue missions, they are expected to respond.
This would especially be the case with storyline events. Our PvP/Strike ships should be on high alert during thest times.
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Like most, I'd like to participate in PvP as well as RP. If we decide to go through with this, I've already decided to be on the RP unit, but there are times when I just want to take down some reds. I have to admit, it feels pretty good.
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Man that teh Pwz I Like the idea of Strike and RP If I Could Id be in for the Strike Team..
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Right now I've noticed a lot of flat out reluctance to give aid to any story-related events and that concerns me. So while I'm sure the RP team would want to always involve themselves in the story, they may need support from the PvP team at times, so how that would happen may need to be worked out.
Storyline events take top priority for everyone. If someone is unwilling to aid with storyline content because of leveling or some other stupid reason, they don't need to be in this faction.
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^
I feel that some people may regard some events as story-related, but may not be.
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I feel that some people may regard some events as story-related, but may not be.
True. Storyline events won't take place outside of the time set aside on the Live Events calendar. Events that repeat ad naseum, such as the Assassin running around in the street, don't really constitute a top priority event.
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i think you have something here tbone. but i see 1 problem. as it is we are having issues NOW retaliating any attacks on FA members. i can easily tell you that the number of times ive been ganked and have received no support or retaliation of any kind outnumbers the times i have 2 to 1. and im not the only one either. ive heard the calls for help go off on TS and fall on deaf ears. i dont think this is an issue where ppl dont want to help more than it is an issue that we, at the time being sometimes simply dont have the manpower. if we are splitting the faction so that only SOME individuals now are in the "strike team" i think that would only hurt the purpose more than help it. and i know that come june activity should increase 2-3 fold, but that remains to be seen. i personally hope it does.
dont get me wrong tho, i dont mean to sound like neighsaying nancy here. I like the idea, and if we can pull it off and do it right, then this will definitely make us stronger and accomodate more ppl to their own personal tastes. however the way i think it should work, and forgive me if someone else has stated this as i came in late into this thread, is yes, organize ships by mission orientation, PVP or RP. if your on the PVP side, PVP takes priority, if your on the RP side, RP takes priority. however, and this is key here, there is no reason that if there is no PVPing going on at any given moment, or any RPing, that players of opposite rolls can volunteer to do the other thing for the meantime, as i can see alot of ppl want to do both and they should be accomodated as well.
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I think the designated strike ships will clarify who is SUPPOSED to respond to attacks on FA members, whether they be other PvP members of RP member.
Me, I plan on RPing a character that is the member of a strike ship and I plan on interacting with the RPers just as much as I plan RPing the part of a strike team member.
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What this will hopefully do is give people who have leveled or are tired of leveling something else to do. It will give them reasons to stick around in-game and thus generate a larger active member-base to accomplish these tasks. Obviously these units are not a means of RESTRICTING what you can and cannot do (there is nothing to stop someone from one unit helping with tasks of another unit) but mainly to clarify who prefers what and make sure that we are using that to our advantage. The problem with people not responding is that a majority of people still feel they have to level to 50 before they can actually do anything, so most of the people you see playing are just grinding missions, while those who are done leveling are playing other games because there is nothing to do.
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Me, I'm a spy by nature. I'm Vinzeru, the Man in Red. Hidden in the shadows, lurking. If you've spotted me, it's already too late.. the next thing you see is gonna be the ground at my feet, and then I'm gone in a flash of light.
Ok, enough of my dramatic entrance, here's where I stand: I enjoy both the RP and PvP aspects of the game, and on this poll I went with volunteer because I want to enjoy both. However, I most enjoy doing spy work, which has applications for both PvP and RP.
A story for example:
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During the time where we had a hit list from Niobe (LiquidFire, 0ctober, Sevker) I was going to hardlines looking for the enemy, RUNNING to the hardlines while invisible so as not to be detected on jack-in. My target at the time was LiquidFire, and I found a gathering of G7G at Midian Park East. I stayed hidden and listened in on their conversation, and it turned out that they were gathering to protect LiquidFire. Sure enough, Jokerz show up. It was red central, and I was in the middle, watching, waiting for my opportunity, waiting for that scrap of information that would leave them open for a strike.
And then it came. "All right everyone, head to Tabor West, on foot".
They were traveling on foot to Tabor West on foot to throw us off, and also to stay together and protect the target. Immediatly I relayed the information over teamspeak. Ambush, they never saw it coming. LiquidFire was dead within a matter of moments as we swarmed their location.
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THAT was the most fun I've had in a PvP situation, which was also part of an RP element, and THAT is what I'd like to do more of. Hand me the hit list, and I'll hand you back the targer's shoe size, nickname, and favorite food.... oh, and don't forget his death certificate. Remember. Vinzeru was a hitman, and a damn good one at that.
Some people like to kill everything in sight. Some people like to make palaver, or debate. I like to lurk about and pry into private communication. I enjoy the recon aspect. I can make contacts behind enemy lines, and then pump them for information. And when the time is right, I will kill with swift and deadly accuracy..
So, what am I saying? I want more of it, and I can see it being possible with this system. A covert action black ops type of deal is what I'm going for. Sure, I can switch loadouts when I'm needed, but this is what I do best, and this is what I enjoy most.
On a final note, I don't think it's necessary to reorganize ships, it might simply be better to have these groups within the ships, and have the orders passed down from the Captains and First Mate's.
I am a mere shadow.
Always there but never noticed.
In my scope, I see my enemy's last expression.
He smiles.
I smile.
I squeeze the trigger, and it's all over
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I see teams as hovercrafts. Perhaps not specifically, but more or less. Therefore, I think we have to make sure the captains also have a bit more responsibility. Looking through some ships, I found one where the whole crew are operatives. Now, I need to give people the ability to choose specific trees, but all operative is not perhaps the best choice. But then there is also how the team works together... a good group of friends may work better together.. or worse.
I would suggest strike teams must qualify for that ship. I would love to be part, but as a level 15, its not an option.
Calls for help sometime go unanswered because a team is perhaps not assembled (afk, low levels, single players). Also, remember to be specific when asking for help. If you do not use common calls ("likwidneo needs urgent assistance, Uriah North") then by the time people figure out where they are, its usually over by the time they could reach you. Obviously, each situation is different.
I think we do need a retaliation system - something like one kill on us permits two kills on them. Specifically player X attacks Y. Any member of Y's faction can have 2 hits on player X only. They should be documented, like a little retal system. This way, we should never have to pick fights, but knowing the game and the asshats out there, we will always have legit "retals" to take.
Swapping between game and webpage still seems a problem for some, I would always recommend an operator (windowed mode or fast computer, or someone offline or coding) to assist and update information.
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Great idea by the way, however, I voted no because I am still unsure about the details of this reorganiztion. I am all for the job thing and it's a great idea to cover both ends of the MXO experience. My main problem is that I love my ship and all my ship mates. I do not want to leave the ship and see entire ships grouped up in this way by their jobs. I have made many friends from my ship and it would really suck to split us up. It would probably more be more organized to make new ships in that way but I dont really want to leave my ship and that is just my feelings in the matter.
For the recon matter, the Evigilos crew is the official crew of the ninja in this faction and I would be delited to nominate our crew for the recon job. Arch and I already have a spy tree loaded out and I am proposing that the rest of the ship do the same. I think it would be fun to do so as a crew.
In closing, I think it is a great idea Tbone and I would love to have a job to help out the good of this faction and Zion. However, I would really like to do so while remaining in the ninja crew of the Evigilos. If this issue is clarified and there is a decision that the ships would not be changed, then I would definitely vote for the volunteer option.
P.S. that is a badass Alucard avatar Rorin. Nice job
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I said make it voluntary. But please please PLEASE do not break up the ships. Not to single out any one group, but I love the electus, my shipmates, and even my very absent captain - or is it absent-minded?....
Plus you know how many people would be pissed about chaning thier sigs?
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O_O
wha--!?!
you won't take my ship!!
*chains members to hull*
see?? they love me!! .... even if they are unconscious .... :p
btw, voluntary is the best way to go. tbone has never forced anyone to do anything before, why should he now ... err .... inside faction business anyway >-<
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Agreed.. I love my ship members as well so i would be a bit disappointed in seeing them spread out. On the Recon note... i LOVE it... i used to do that back when their was only Zero One... i would scout around and relay locations of enemies or specific targets *remembers the days of chasing and slamming Rip and TC* I would be up for a recon unit... as for my members... i would have to talk to them about that.
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I'm just curious... I've been away from TS and game, but what do you guys do as part of a hovercraft currently?
What about normal ships accepting the bulletin missions?
Main strike teams have to be ready, fast, high level, and will be busy all the time, since FA is #1 target. Being realistic, its possible for three 40-50 members to respond to some ganking quickly, and have the "retal" (and "don't mess" message) delivered some of the time. The rest of the time, the incident has occurred, and the culprits away. Here, the retal system comes into force - can the strike team really spend time chasing this guy?
Before the team even starts looking, another attack will come in, to which they must respond. Therefore, a normal hovercraft could claim the bounty on this guy at any time, if put on a list. Of course, any retal system has to be based on the alliance situations that we have.
So a main strikeforce could have a lot of time on their hands away from the main hovercraft... but it does sound interesting, allowing a bit of variation for the hardcore gamers, without bothering the casual gamer too much.
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The strike team will quickly learn who the main offenders are and they should be put on a "most wanted" list. Maybe our KOS list can be brought back and listed by player instead of by faction.
Others will be dealt with and hunted down on a case by case basis. Hunting a player or group of players who have engaged in an act of war on the Furious Angels may require several stike teams operating in several areas.
Maybe what we need to do is to have voting within the crews to find out what type of ship they prefer to be and have the capt. report to Tbone what kind of ship their crew would prefer to be. Who knows, we may need to create another ship or two or three.
We just need to know who our strike ship crew are so we know who we can call on to respond to threats and attackes.
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bumpage.
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whoa, ket's 2 posts from the 1000 mark! :)
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this is a wonderfull idea. i would to be part of the Rp team.
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i love the idea, great idea, the only problem i have is level problems, a lot of us arn't level 50 yet, obviously, i personally would enjoy being on the PVP side of things, but im only lvl 14 and running missions doesnt work unless im with someone who is at least 10 levels higher than i am. Its not that i can't do it by myself, its because the mission sends me out to bum fuck nowhere with at least lvl 20's running around the streets.
So that leads to my other point, which is lack of help, everytime i get on, i ask "is there a mission team running? or Anyone wanna help me run some missions," of course there are always a few that are like yah give me 2 mins and ill help, but the majority of the time, its silent, not saying that collecting the "letters" and whatnot for the event isn't important or protecting morph's body isn't either, but taking 23 hours of the day to do that and not helping your clanmates is a little extreme. I have to wait for the "usual" people that would be happy to help the lower levels gets on. I just thought i'd let people know, since this is a "reform clan" thing. like most of the lvl 50's, i only know one who has actually helped and others who weren't lvl 50 but were more than happy to help, of course this is just from personal experience, some lvl 50's do help, i think i saw broin and gillette help out ppl, but of course at the same time i know a lot more 50's that dont do shit either. just thought i'd let ya guys know my opinion
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FYI, I voted for "Yes, let's do it, but make it completely volunteer-based!"
I hope that if need be it will be easy for people to do the others job if need be, as well as will be done if need be.
I also assume captains will have to take on both roles. Correct?
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We will start trying to implement this soon now that the live event is over. The faction is pretty divided as to whether or not we should require this or not.....
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If it is required then I feel people again are being forced to play based on what the faction what rather then how they want to enjoy the game....so I still think volunteer is the best way to go. It'll be fun either way :)
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If it is required then I feel people again are being forced to play based on what the faction what rather then how they want to enjoy the game....so I still think volunteer is the best way to go. It'll be fun either way :)
Maybe, but the current issue is lack of motivation. The point is to give people something to do. The choice is made to log on or not log on. We can't control that. Organization requires...organization. We require you to wear the Furious Angels tag in game. We require you to join one of our ships. We do require that you maintain a certain level of maturity while you represent us. Being in any group means adjusting to the group's needs.
Here's the issue. We make it volunteer and have 10 people sign up for one group and 10 for another. They're never online at the same time and never get the chance to accomplish goals because anyone they ask say "I'm not in that group". We require someone to sign up for one group or the other and we increase the chance of activity and productivity, but sacrifice the freedom of not participating in the faction. My concern is that if it is purely volunteer it just simply won't work. If we center our faction around it, though, and it becomes a primary function of our group, it could be very successful. That's my own opinion, though.
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I have to agree with T on this for the following reason: If you sign up to participate in the group that best fits your game play, then what are you really being "forced" to do if you already play in the manner of the group you sign up for? Wouldn't it just be more of the same, but in a more organized manner?
I guess at that point you have to ask yourself if you joined this faction to actually participate, do what benefits the faction and interact with your fellow faction mates, or if you just came to join up with a popular/infamous Zion faction and wear the much coveted "Furious Angels" tag.
/shrug. Those are my thoughts.
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wait wait wait... there's more to this faction than the cool tag and uniform?!?!? damn! I've been schtooped!
</kidding> :)
but yeah, im still kinda half and half on this one, best thing I think it to just roll it out, see how it goes, and go from there, maybe make a separate 'grey area' so to speak where members can go late in the night/early morning when numbers are scarce.. heh. *shrug*
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^
I feel that some people may regard some events as story-related, but may not be.
True. Storyline events won't take place outside of the time set aside on the Live Events calendar. Events that repeat ad naseum, such as the Assassin running around in the street, don't really constitute a top priority event.
Is a storyline event not absolutely anything which may move part of the naritive forward? while it may not play as grand a part as say, morpheus' death, it still does have a chance to effect real change within the story if proper leveraging techniques are applied.
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Agreed, Fallout.
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no fallout, i dont think so. what you have to realize is that "events" not within the scheduled live-events time frame, aka the asassin running around in the matrix, while they might possibly have an impact in and of themselves, usually a precursor to a real live event, will not be impacted by the participation of any individuals or factions, namely ourselves. despite the "you have a chance to impact the unfolding storyline of the matrix" and the "how does the story end? you tell us." bullshit that the devs have been feeding us, they are still very much in control of what goes on, and if we get any real choice at all, its usually an A or B situation. nothings going to happen that the devs dont want to happen, and so far, anything anyone has done has seemed inconsequential to the storyline when you think about it. if they want morpheus dead, by god morpheus is gonna bite the bullet and theres not a damned thing anyone can do about it. chasing around after the assassin isnt going to get him killed. the devs arent going to want that at that point. furthermore chasing around after the assassin isnt going to get anything done at all. and the same can be said of any other "event" that doesnt happen during scheduled live-events time.
i know i voted for "volunteer setup" but primarily that was because i assumed signing up for 1 job meant you couldnt do anything in the other. however if we are allowed to do a little bit of the other when not currently assigned to the primary, then yes, i do think this should be an organized affair. there is no reason not to do it. the ppl who want to RP arent going to go and sign up for PVP, and the ppl who want to PVP arent going to go and sign up for RP so we absolutely shouldnt hear anything along the lines of "but i dont want to PVP right now. do i have to? i wanna go RP" when the order is going out to go gank someone. anyone who would say that is a moron and they should have signed up for the other thing instead, or should switch ASAP. you're going to choose one or the other, its A or B, not ABCDEFGHI... so by signing up, there is no not getting what you want(pardon the double negative). so, like i said, i dont see a reason not to organize it. and my past leadership experience tells me tbone is absolutely right and this isnt going to work if we dont organize it.
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no fallout, I don't think so. what you have to realize is that "events" not within the scheduled live-events time frame, aka the asassin running around in the matrix, while they might possibly have an impact in and of themselves, usually a precursor to a real live event, will not be impacted by the participation of any individuals or factions, namely ourselves. despite the "you have a chance to impact the unfolding storyline of the matrix" and the "how does the story end? you tell us." bullshit that the devs have been feeding us, they are still very much in control of what goes on, and if we get any real choice at all, its usually an A or B situation. nothings going to happen that the devs don't want to happen, and so far, anything anyone has done has seemed inconsequential to the storyline when you think about it.
This goes into my proper leveraging techniques. You're correct the devs are trying to maintain control. However, if, as a collective and maintainable group we create a series of public events whereby we forcefully break their plans and then publicise our exploits to the point there is no way they can continue with the planned story without aggregiously breaking all semblance of continuty. Then we will FORCE them to change the story. As of right now the faction has fallen into an apathetic state because the proper techniques were not applied in the past and therefore the devs managed to have their way.
This requires several steps. Step 1: Decide the change, let's say for example, killing the assassin.
Step 2: Anylize target strengths and weaknesses. In the assasin's case he can use any ability he wants and can roll out of interlock and run through walls. He rolls very high in interlock.
Step 3: Create a plan to exploit weaknesses and minimize strenghts. In this case find a large open area to lure him to, have a large main team engaging with other teams waiting in the wings outside the main battle, prepared to catch an escaping assasin even if he were to go inside the building, and keep him occupied long enough for the main force to catch up and other teams to re-position.
Step 4: Make sure this explot is public. Take screenshots, bink videos, whatever. Get as many ways to expose people to this as possible.
Step 5: STRICT role-playing attire. no OC area chat, play your roles right and act within the boundaries of what'd be considered normal and acceptable language within the matrix. Those that cannot do this could simply choose not to speak outside of faction/crew/team chat and teamspeak. Speak before, during and after the event to weave it firmly into the fabric of the matrix lore. No character breaks can be tolerated, it must be air-tight to insure that no bullshit invalidations of said action due to it's non-rp nature can be taken place just as the live events team obviously doesn't respond to non RPing characters.
Step 6: Publicize said exploit, in an RP sense to ridiculous levels. Make everyone KNOW your character killed the assasin in the matrix, that it was a strike by zion authorized or whatever. Make sure everyone knows. Post in character on the forums, post the videos, screenshots, make sure it is absolutely everywhere.
Step 7:....PROFIT! The devs now cannot use the assasin again without breaking continuity (which they could not do due to their dedication to a firmly narative story that continues the matrix saga. A continuity break of this level would cause a lot of discord and put off everyone because they'd realize the bullshit about changing the story was false. This in short means lots of cancelled subscriptions and lost cash) This also means they would, if necessary have to re-write extensive portions of future story to accomodate for our exploits in it.
if they want morpheus dead, by god morpheus is gonna bite the bullet and theres not a damned thing anyone can do about it. chasing around after the assassin isnt going to get him killed. the devs arent going to want that at that point. furthermore chasing around after the assassin isnt going to get anything done at all. and the same can be said of any other "event" that doesnt happen during scheduled live-events time.[\quote]
The rest of your above quote is the exact attitude I was speaking of earlier. This sickly apathetic worldview which really just reaks of the same sorry apathy most humans have in the real world. If the devs want to play hardball, you play hardball back, and mind you we're not a corporation that has to abide by rules. We can one-up by getting the community rallied into a position whereby if the devs do not do as we wish a frenzy ensues.
Quite frankly, this is the only current way we can ever truly hope to have any impact on the story. It requires a LOT of dedication and a LOT of organization, but it can be done. If people were actually ready to do this and not demonstrative of the sickly apathetic attitude above I would probably be logging in more often, as whenever I do nobody wants to do anything except boring mindless nothingless (and even then not of the kind that'd help a lower level player reach higher tiers of character development)
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ok lets say for one second, it was PHSYICALLY POSSIBLE to kill the assassin, which, and what im saying so that there is no confusion, is that it is NOT physically possible to kill the assassin. you are saying that
A: we should piss off the devs intentionally to ruin the storyline.
to that i refer you to the COUNTLESS instances where players have attempted to do something that any particular MMOs developers were not willing to do. case in point, SWG. somehow some ppl managed to exploit the game where they could duplicate currency. it was quite a while and this counterfeit currency got spread all over the place before teh devs realized what was going on. rather than start an investigation to see who the culprits were who were doing this, they decided to ban everyone found to be carrying this counterfeit currency. in game players reacted by forming a massive in game protest. what did SoE do in responce? they started teleporting ppl into space. now i wasnt their to witness this personally, i just read this off of a few sites, PA, i think Slashdot and 1up, but this is a perfect example of what happens when the devs do or not want to do something. when the players get the devs to do something its not that they MAKE them do something, its that they presented the devs with an alternate way of doing whatever it was that they were doing, and they decided, hey the community is right thats better. like the petition to extend the preorder graceperiod right here in mxo. noone FORCED the devs to do it. they wanted to.
on top of all that, the only thing you're going to solve is get us in trouble with the devs. possibly get a few people banned, and overall make FA look like the very thing we've been trying to fight, a bunch of assholes out to ruin everyone elses fun. personally I would never approve of that, and i dont think either Tbone or any of the other captains would either.
B: Our actions can force the devs to change the storyline by throwing them a curve ball. Again, lets say it were PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to throw the devs said "curveball" take killing the assassin for example again. its real simple. We didnt kill the Assassin PERMANENTLY. he restored his RSI and came out of another hardline. then they write a short workaround and post it on mxo.com so that they counter all of our press on what we did and they continue their story EXACTLY as previously planned. you aren't giving the writers enough credit. they are professional writers and they can shoot the bullshit and think up stuff to anything we would try to do their storyline and counter our attempts 37 times in the time it takes me to blink. this is fiction, not reality. in reality if A happens it is safely logical to assume that B will follow. they can write their way into anything they want in a fictional world.
anywho as for killing the assassin, how's this for your 7 step plan? the moment the assassin realizes he is in trouble and he could actually die.... he turns off PVP. they can do that you know. turn their PVP flags off on a hostile server. there goes your 7 step plan right out of the window. im not being apathetic, im being realistic. you need to accept that mxo is a world of creation, and like creation, it has gods. the devs are those gods and in their world, what they say goes. if you want to try to impact the storyline i suggest you stick to the script or at the very least think up more logical/feasible means of doing so. if you want them to make better scripts, then hit the forums and suggestion box. those are the only options we really have.
and PS i was only using the whole chasing around the assassin thing as a reference that that is not a real live event and should not receive the attention of such.
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Fallout, I have to admit, that is some nice planning there.
The whole event that you have outlined there is something very very nice that we should really be doing.
Point number 7 can fall down, if the Devs just decide to continue with the story anyway, in OUR mind this would not create continuity.... if nobody actually read the information we posted, it wouldn't affect them either....
I totally get your point tho, and I really like the scene you painted. I think we should get some of the strike teams working in this capacity; even if the devs don't act on us changing the story line, we can get the word out that we are heavily involved in creating atmosphere within the game.
edit: Likwidneo, whilst your points are still valid, participation MAKES the game, MAKES the storyline. Although we would be hard pushed to change the events that have been prewritten by Andy 4 years ago, we can contribute more to the community by trying to interact with the storyline.
We can make a valiant effort to stop the story, but at the end of the day, the Assassin can still survive. But a great story- The Angels try to stop the Assassin, beat him to an inch of his life, and he escapes!
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thats kool and all, but i dont see how it impacts the storyline directly. i understand teh frustration we have and our eager desire to impact the storyline, thats why we are all here. but we have to admit that when we heard the whole line of "The storyline is going to progress through a series of live events of which the outcome and future storyline will be impacted and progressed by the players themselves." all our minds went wild with the potential of what we could do to the matrix, only to have to sit here and follow a fucking script theyve laid out for us. these live events, while 10x k00ler than anything else ive seen in another MMO, to date they have not been what the devs promised us. face it. so far theyve used the old bait and switch on us. i dont know. at least thats how i feel.
dont get me wrong tho, if someone can think up of someway to logically and feasibly impact the storyline without pissing the devs off to all hell, then im all up for it.
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Well, remember that we are now only at live stage... what I mean is, we had already gotten to this part of the story in beta, so there have been no surprises, so far. I would also suggest that this first starter storyline is essential (Morpheus death leads to fourth faction... REQUIREMENT in the game I believe). Once the fourth faction is available, I think we shall then see more interesting developments.
I'm not sure we piss the devs off... after all, we are just playing the game the way they allow us to (oh wait, that means no invisibility in mission areas, right ;)) On one side, we are continuing the beta stance, and reporting and testing things (eg like trapping the assassin). On the other side, we are creating our own environment inside. Making them take notice of us, is what we want. I don't think we need to piss em off to do that! ;)
The storywriters created the story - the devs play it out. They should have instructions to get involved, and we can see this by the Assassin running around. We got to interact with him, and make our own directions from there. The devs did not need to do this, and therefore could have just released the movies showing Morpheus die, nothing we could do about it.
I think we will see more involvement soon. I dunno.
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To address your point likwidneo, look at SWG right now. It's growing sick and slowly dying. All MMOs, a bit after initial release, reach critical mass. At that point they will never get subscribers above that level and can only hope to keep them and stave off mass cancelations. Everquest was particularly good at establishing a hardcore comunity capable enough to fund server upkeep and slow but continual development. SWG on the other hand alientated players and honestly the entire place is only a ghost of what it once was.
I was in a free trial a while back, in a fairly decent sized guild on Bria called HERO, and things went pretty well. My friend's account (which he bought after his trial expired) was mysteriously re-activated. He showed me parts of bria and areas that before had been bustling with people are veritable ghost towns now. Not even the star wars name can save SWG from inevitably failing.
Secondly, we are not ruining the story. We are making our own. Essentially we are doing what the devs encourage players to do, make their own story and cut a swath in the matrix. However unlike what the devs want us to do, we will not sit futilly and whittle away against an unchangable pre-written "Destiny." We do this by organizing, planning and making sure that the only way the situations can occur a way other then we're hoping for, is to break continuity.
Now, another differnce between us and SWG is that we have a live events team, this team is required to interact with us in-character and do things in-character. This is because, quite frankly, as dictated by the hype and the official releases, everything we do, down to the tinyest detail within the matrix, after launch, is written in canon. Because of this, and because the fact that while logged in we are constantly writing our own little story and the live events team are forwarding the larger naratives, we have the ability to leverage pressure to change that story by forcing them into situations where they either must do something new or break continuity. It is considered breaking continuity (not to us but to matrix lore as a whole) because all actions taking place are instantly canonized in lore.
If we have records of them breaking continuity in a major way it would be a deathblow to this game with already somewhat shaky foundations. This combined with proper community support puts the developers in a very very shaky position. They can either do as we wish and provide true story interaction, or face a flop caused by mass account cancelations. Then they can watch their game wither away much as star wars galaxies has, to a point where there is not enough to support continued development and upkeep.
This is because breaking continuity angers not just casual fans but extremely upsets the hardcore loyalists. It is these loyalists that would keep the game running for years to come, therefore it is in their best interests to keep within continuity.
Now, is this going to be easy? most certainly not. It will take a lot of very specific discipline and organizational skills. However if anyone can do it, we can. We simply need to be in a position where we can organize times where all 40/50 of us are on teamspeak and jacked in while the live events team is on.
We can change the story ladies and gentlemen, we have the power to do so. All we need is to agree to work together to use it. I believe in us, in the angels and the power to do this. All we need is unity and organization.
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while i never played SWG, common sense tells me that SWG didnt die because the devs were a bunch of dicks. it died because SoE is too busy toting around their flagship game, namely EQ or EQII and gives shit for funding and resources to the SWG teams.how do i know this? cuz the same thing is happening with planetside, a.k.a. the big empty, a game that is so FUCKING AWESOME and is the only MMOFPS out tehre only to be countered by SoE corporate execs monumental stupidity and lack of funding the game, namely the marketing department. fact of the matter is, if its an online game, comes from SoE, and doesnt have the words Ever or Quest in it, its getting shit treatment from the boardroom. consequently, the same company with the same employees with the same fucking policies run SWG and EQ. i doubt anybody got fired for fucking with ppl in SWG, in fact it probably didnt even get looked down upon by the higher ups. the reason why EQ thrives where SWG fails isnt the attitude of the staff, its plain and simple investments of time and money. devs and GMs take the exact same attitude on FFXI and guess what, Square Enixs quarterly earnings report states that profit from FFXI has doubled since the same quarter last year. ive heard the same nightmare stories comming out of WoW. fact of the matter is, staff in mmo's can do whatever they want and it wont stop 99.998% of ppl from playing the game. this has been proven time and again. and i think if we try purposely interfering with the dev's previously outlined storyline, theyre going to be none too happy about it.
id say our best bet is as you stated trying to create our own storylines, storylines that dont interfere with the devs storylines and dont get me wrong id be down for that.... but.... its not going to impact the game. no one is going to take up and notice. and i dont think these storylines will be recognized by the devs in any way, even tho that WOULD be really cool.
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Well, the devs say we can impact the storylines, and I think it may be in our mission statement to become more involved in the story line (we need to confirm real mission statements ;)). Ok, all points are valid, and we really don't know whats happening.... but just an EG:
Assassin kills Morpheus in a cut sequence?
We see the Assissin running about before hand.
Now I can suggest, but its unlikely, that had we found the correct area (in Uriah) we may have found the area that the cut sequence was meant to be filmed in, it may have actually happened live too. I doubt it (due to the Assassin exit from hole). Its possible, that from clues where the Assassin was (and others - there are pictures/transcripts of someone talking to Morpheus in Uriah just before his death), we may MAY MAY have been able to interfere, and STOP the assassin. OK, long shot... but it could easily apply to any live situation in-game.
Perhaps the devs always have two directions to take.
1) So that nothing can really be leaked, because we don't know where it would go (see the RP sheet for example).
2) So the devs, and other employees don't know where the story will go.
This increases the chances for us to get involved, and change things! The devs have told us to! The game is heralded with these abilities.... but you are right.. WE MUST NOT PISS THE DEVS OFF! I think offending them would be hard to do, unless we are harming the community in which case they take action.
Who knows where the insectiside stuff is taking us. We have already found information saying that Niobe and others have had secret meetings with certain clans. Perhaps they did something right to get involved.... perhaps. So many clues out there to make you get involved, to make you solve something... they want to select you, to let you in on something special!
This is a good discussion :) I want to believe that the devs are being truthful when they say we can impact the storyline. Impact? Ok perhaps not change... but get inolved is what they are saying!!
Just FYI I believe I heard EQ had cut their servers from 18 to 6 or something like that? Anyway, a drastic cut which shows that there are problems there now (or the all new stuff is coming out, and they don't want to pay for both).
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(Not sure if this has been said already, but I can't read the whole thread right now)
As great as this idea sounds, that still doesn't change the fact that if you're on the "Rep Unit" and you're out there trying to get things done, that some group of childish bastards can just pop out of nowhere and gank you senseless because of something that the "PvP Unit" did to them.
Just saying...
I mean I'm all for getting some kind of group together to work on perpetuating our presence in the Matrix as the Furious Angels that everyone used to know and love back in Beta. I always try to go off and do it on my own when I'm just hanging around, but sadly there is nowhere to "hang around" at now that all the reds send everyone running. The community is so suffering on this server.
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Ket: in another situation ket, you might be on to something, in fact ive had the very same thoughts before. back during beta i saw gabe's fraps video of your meeting with seraph. i think if you guys had contact morpheus earlier and brought him to seraph(which is what seraph wanted you to do) then yes seraph would have gotten his message to morpheus and he might have been saved.
the problem with these situations is that hindsight is 20/20... foresight isnt. and thats what impacting the storyline in these ways requires. almost psychic foresight. as for saving morpheus life this time or that cinematic happening in real time, no. for 2 reasons. A: not possible. u said it yourself, that assassin comming out of the vent thing. the game itself isnt capable of doing the camera angles they used. and the lypsincing for vids 1 and 2 wouldnt be possible in realtime either. that was an FMV. and B: look at the press that went out, every gaming site and their mother had coverage on morpheus death. fuck it was on MTV. if you read thru some of them you would have found out that the watchowski's had planned to kill morpheus early in the game release since the game was in concept. they wanted a big impact on the storyline comming right out the gate. and thats what they got. what the devs want, theyre going to get.
however, yes, we can assume to a certain extent that there may be much more subtle factors that determine involvement in the storyline beyond the riddles. has anyone thought of just firing off emails for shits sake to the game chars and let them know where we stand every once in a while? maybe the reason we didnt get meetings from niobe or morpheus is cuz the devs dont know where we stand with, with ZHC or with Morpheus/Niobe and in that sense didnt know if we could be trusted with any information about a rebellion, in terms of the storyline. why were only 2 factions(at least to our knowledge) contacted about this... i dont think its because they solved some riddles. another thing thats been pecking at my noodle so to speak, CQ points. why are they there? to us they seem to be there for no reason at all. but if theres one thing ive learned about playing games, specifically MMO's, and ESPECIALLY in the matrix, nothing isnt there without a reason. i have been forming a theory, and its only halfbaked mind you, but i think that whatever factions earn the most amount of CQ points for their respective organization between events MIGHT just may be getting treated to some storyline TLC, and the devs arent letting us in on this, just for sake of randomizing it a little. i have no solid proof, its just a thought, but i asked myself "if i was a dev, what would be the point of me putting in CQ points in the game?" and thats what i came up with. the devs are using CQ points as a measuring stick..... for something.... and my best guess is merit for live events interaction.
anywho, hopefully ket you're right and we just cant see beyond our own personal points of view and yes we are actually having options along the way that do impact the story, but so far all the evidence seems to point otherwise.
midnight: that will never happen. key word you used there is "Team" you dont gank teams, you gank stragglers. you dont see team based battles going on unless some kind of event is going down, like the zion/mach party at the club the other day the mervs decided to crash, or the afternoon of the first day of the hunt for morpheus where everyone and their mother was logged, and bored, and in the vicinity of mara central. even live events will almost certainly be running around in teams, herego making you something ppl wont want to fuck with. it would have to be coordinated ahead of time, theyd have to track your movements and not lose you while this team is being assembled, and theyd have to know ahead of time that you WOULD be forming a team just to intentionally fuck with you. its extremely difficult to fuck with a team, and if they gank you, so what. its not going to happen twice, right. you're going to see them again and your going to hyperjump away and continue what you were doing, right? no big deal. i still dont see any reason not to organize this.
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Yeah, midnight.. the problem you highlight is really the problem we have just now.
A high lvl Angel kills a medium-high foe; they retaliate by killing a low lvl Angel., and the cycle begins.
I think the PVP-team is more a response to ganking - a message is delivered, and the score is once again tied (they kill one of us, we kill the killers). If the message is not understood by them, and they attack a lowbie again, the PVP-team is brought into action once more.
If the foes say they are getting revenge for the PVP team, then this cannot be true - the game is even after we strike them, any further strikes are of their own accord. If they always look for these attacks on us, then there is nothing we can ever do about these people - see them as gankers.
:S I hope ya'll followed that.
Likwid: Granted, that is a FMV, but what I meant is it may have been acted out in-game ALSO. The FMV wasn't released until after Morpheus died, they could have released a different one if SOMETHING had happened.
You could very well be correct about contacting people in-game.
I'm not sure CQ points has anything to do with live events, don't they have to do with PvPing? - a high CQ could mean you are a ganker, and viewed as troublesome by the community, a low count could mean you are peaceful, or simply new. Plus, I'm not sure how CQ is measured on non-PVP servers that still have the story.
My final thought is, how would the storyline be affected across all servers if we managed to change it? Would it make sense for other servers... and if not, does that blow the whole "change the story" idea?
I digress, we need to stay on topic - at the very least two teams (PvP and Relations) really have not a lot to do with changing stories, but certainly we should get an investigative unit to try to interact, and at least get full details of events that are happening.
o_O
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I think this thread is getting a bit derailed. The subject we are supposed to be discussing is whether to require members to join a set force (pvp or RP) or to leave it as optional.
I am prone to agree that if it is optional, it will most likely fade away and nothing much will come of it. If it is required it can be organized and any of these plans you would like to attempt will hold a better chance of success. This discussion over whether or not we can truly impact the stroy line(and what is considered story line material) sounds like the perfect start for our RP team, so let's stay focused here so we can get this new system up and running.
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Professor, the problem is to change the story it requires both good RP as well as signifigant PvP muscle. We cannot do such if the segeragated PvP group refuses to aid the RP group under the impression that doing such is a futile activity.
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It seems the best route is to start off with the idea that the only dead set time for story are during the actual events. However there is no reason why the RP unit cannot continue to pursue leads and lay out plans between the events. If the RP unit is obstructed by enemy players while attempting this, then the PvP unit will come and kill. RP units will be able to pursue their story, PvP unit will have someone to kill.
Of course this has its flaws, and it does not guarentee that you will get enough people that you need to pull off your RP plans. I also understand that many of us disagree over whether it is even possible to change or impact the story line. However, as it stands now we are pretty much guarenteed not to have enough organization for one of these plans to even get started, let alone succeed. All systems have there kinks to be worked out, but if we worry to much over what if scenarios then we will not get anywhere.
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In addition to making an impact on the storyline, one of the other main things FA is about is having fun, and seeing where this thread has gone, it seems like there' s not as much of that happening as it used to.
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thats not going to happen fallout, the point of the PVP team is TO function. if we're the PVP team why would we NOT go and back you up and take care of a problem. we're the PVP team thats our job. and if there's an issue, thats what the leadership is for. they will hand out orders and prioritize targets. its not going to not get done, unless no one is on who can take care of it at all, then thats another story altogether.
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It seems the best route is to start off with the idea that the only dead set time for story are during the actual events. However there is no reason why the RP unit cannot continue to pursue leads and lay out plans between the events. If the RP unit is obstructed by enemy players while attempting this, then the PvP unit will come and kill. RP units will be able to pursue their story, PvP unit will have someone to kill.
Of course this has its flaws, and it does not guarentee that you will get enough people that you need to pull off your RP plans. I also understand that many of us disagree over whether it is even possible to change or impact the story line. However, as it stands now we are pretty much guarenteed not to have enough organization for one of these plans to even get started, let alone succeed. All systems have there kinks to be worked out, but if we worry to much over what if scenarios then we will not get anywhere.
The problem ultimately spawns from the issue that different players en masse are separating into very different playstiles. Many want to just mindlessly fight and kill other orgs' members and others wish to greatly impact the story and try and fight to make an actual dent in the world.
The issue is, the latter group cannot get there without the former. As it requires an iron will, firm resolve and signifigant muscle to put fully into action. Beacuse this faction is starting to become divided like this, the fun is vastly diminishing as people become sickly apathetic and refuse to aid others. It's like elections all over again "I can't make a difference, they'll never get elected, etc. So I don't wanna go outside and vote!"
Something about that has to be done, something to truly re-unify us to a single cause, to be devoted like we were during beta.
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wow i cant believe i missed this thread... hmmm well im all for it, sounds great and will hopefully appeal to everyone in the faction, good thinkin boss
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Hm...as to why we shouldn't try and do things like kill the Assassin to alter the story...hmmm...could be because the product I purchased, and continue to pay for, promised me the feature of a dynamic storyline that may be altered by its players.
Also, as far as altering the storyline, or even impacting it in the slightest, how do you even know we can't influence it? Most everyone is just so lethargic to the idea of getting up and trying to do it. Most just sit there and go "Eh, what's the point? Why bother? We can't do anything."
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im not saying we cant do it, im saying we're not being allowed to do it. theres a difference. the devs are, at least so far strictly controlling whats going on in the storyline of any significance. any impacts so far have been extremely insignificant. if you want to try and kill the assassin, you go ahead, im telling you its not going to happen. instead of focusing on the things we cant do, how about trying to focus on what we CAN do, thru the PVP and RP teams.
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I'm not saying we can't do it, I'm saying we're not being allowed to do it. theres a difference. the devs are, at least so far strictly controlling what's going on in the storyline of any significance. any impacts so far have been extremely insignificant. if you want to try and kill the assassin, you go ahead, I'm telling you its not going to happen. instead of focusing on the things we can't do, how about trying to focus on what we CAN do, thru the PVP and RP teams.
Agreed the devs are maintaining a firm control on the story. This is exactly WHY we need to make a point to them, by playing hardball back, that we will not let them ruin our fun by making the story inflexible and futile. We can do this by combining our might and doing the above to engineer a number of situations like that where they are ultimately forced to either change the story or face community riots and mass account cancellations.
I doubt this soon after launch the devs want SWG style riots and account cancelations. We can do it if we put our collective might behind it and organize properly.
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be careful with the word collective, words like that get people reinsirted back into the matrix. :P
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oh noes! he said collective! *gasp*
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*sigh* ok, close to 2 pages of this argument going about, and you still dont get it. name ONE time these riots have worked. or these mass account cancelations. believe me, ive seen the protests, ive seen the cancelations. and you know what. they dont work. tell me whats going to make them work now? what you dont realize because you just scrolled over the EULA during installation is you already contractually agreed that its theyre fucking game, theyre going to do whatever they want with it, your $15 a month doesnt entitle you to shit, and there is nothing you can do about it. go ahead, go have a little read. come back. and then talk to me about what they are or arent going to do in regards to player pressure. they will simply ban your happy ass, wether thats what you want or not. and there is no way in hell we are going to get enough people behind us willing to cancel their accounts for them to listen. it would take nothing less than half of Enumerator canceling their accounts for them to even LISTEN. we're not talking about changing the stats on a little item, or fixing this or tweaking that, or bringing back these accounts. we are talking about forcing them to fundamentally redesign their entire storytelling process, the very BACKBONE of this games content delivery system, from scratch. they are going to laugh at us all the way over to the database server, where they will search Liquidneo, Fallout2man, and whoever else they want, and hit the Delete key.
as for engineering situations where we force them to change the storyline. again we've been at this for 2 pages. its NOT going to happen. the only way youre going to make any change is by killing someone off. whoever that person is is going to turn off their PVP flag. and lets say they humor you and you actually manage to kill them, they will simply RESPAWN according to the storyline. we cant go around saying we made someone perma-death. only the devs can do that. we cant blow up buildings, we cant do damage to the matrix.... so show me how we're going to engineer these situations?
you call me an apathist, i say im a realist. we need to stop focusing on what we CANT do and start focusing on what we CAN, the PVP and RP teams. THATS the way to go. all you're going to do is make FA look like the very thing we've been fighting, a faction out to ruin everyone elses fun, like Viral Vendetta, and god knows who else before them. im not going to get my happy level 41 ass banned. ive been workign for over 6 weeks on this character. no thank you.
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look guys, as far as altering the storyline and what not.... the devs have a full fledged script written out for the storyline for the entire game for AT LEAST the first year, the top-dev dude said it himself. Does that means we can't change anything at all? I don't know... it is possible that they left room for different paths or various occurances, possible but most likely not probable. Lets be honest, do you really think the devs and GMs would give us gamers that kind of power over the game that THEY made? No. We are merely consumers, i'm positive they have a team of individuals who sit around and plot out what should and will happen... for the first year, they've already done so. All we can try to do, for the time being, is the best we can with what's been given to us. We have oppertunities to work ourselves into the story line, be in the center of the chaos.
I think, one reason they planned the first year out to a T is because they wanted to focus more on actual game development, tweaking the game to make it thoroughly enjoyable, which as I'm sure you know they are still trying to do. Look at the facts.. for those of us in beta, we already KNEW all of what has happened so far would happen... we knew morpheus was gonna die by an assassin, now yes... they have thrown in some additional stuff that we hadn't seen before, but that was to be expected. I just have a hard time believing, for the first year in any case, that we can actually CHANGE anything about the storyline... a storyline that is already set in stone behind the looking glass.
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I can think of no reason why any account would be banned, unless you are exploiting/harming the community, which we will not do. Just because we play how we want (if we wanted to track the assassin to try to kill, that is up to us) does not mean that the devs can ban us.
Devs said we can change/alter the storyline. Period. If this holds true, then we must concentrate some of our teams on this, and that is why it was touched upon. We can only go on the information that the Dev's tell us, assuming anything makes an ass out of u and me. Forget what you know about other MMORPG's. This is MxO. Chanagable storylines, not a game but "the fourth film".... this is very different, and we can't assume what's going, or not going, to happen.
This is why the teams are being created. We have assessed various situations from within and outwith the faction. We are looking for a way to keep our members involved with the game, and make it more exciting, and also looking to get into the storyline.
If we sit back, and do nothing, we will never be involved.
The idea that The Furious Angels could be the saviours of Zion, and go down in history in WB script as such, is incredible.
Enough already. Votes have been cast, I think its an obvious victory for change, now we just have to concentrate on how to impliment it.
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*Applauds Ket*
I agree with you Ket. Well stated. I'm just waitin' to see how this is gonna to be rolled out...then it'll be time to run with it.
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so how long will it be until we can expect formation of these new groups? and also will there be a sign up process for these groups... i think i would best benefit the faction as being part of the pvp group ;)
also... will these new groups be the foundation of our crew organization? will the ships be reformed and restaffed based on these 2 new groups?
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Whilst I'm waiting on final details myself, I can tell you that the signup process is ready to roll, through the crew_roster, and currently set so you can be in a ship and a squad. You will also receive private forums (much like ships).
The problem with that, is duties may conflict, so you may find yourself looking for a better ship to suit your new squad role. I've been getting this ready ahead of full information tho'...
Again, this where I wait for Tbone and the rest of the staff to sort it out, could be that this method will be scapped.
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ket, what i was referring to in terms of getting ourselves banned is fallouts statements of forming protests and riots and getting the community riled up to make demands on the devs and otherwise try to directly interfere in what the devs are doing with the storyline. THAT can and will get us banned, and yes, exactly, while i dont speak for the leadership, i highly doubt those are the kinds of things we are going to be doing.
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Agreed Ket, now is not the time to be debating storyline plans. That stuff comes after, when we are all nice and formed up. If you have a burning desire to effect the storyline and want to argue your plan, then it sounds like we need to get you into the RP unit ASAP. I think the biggest descision left to make is how to instigate these units, and whether to make them crew based or not.
We at the Evigilos have already discussed the possibility of crew reformation, and have decided that if it does become crew based, we will all move to a unit together so our ship is not broken up. Perhaps it would be a good idea for the crews to talk privately and see how all the crew mates are feeling. It may turn out that some crews will just naturally go one way or the other together, which would make the descision of how to implement these changes much easier on our leadership.
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ket, what I was referring to in terms of getting ourselves banned is fallouts statements of forming protests and riots and getting the community riled up to make demands on the devs and otherwise try to directly interfere in what the devs are doing with the storyline. THAT can and will get us banned, and yes, exactly, while I don't speak for the leadership, I highly doubt those are the kinds of things we are going to be doing.
We don't need to start protests, or riots, they'll do that themselves. All we must do is, in strict RP fashion, make it plentifully available (with screenshots, video, etc.) that we have accomplished certain feats within the matrix. If the community repeatedly sees the story violated they will provide the protesting and rioting themselves. :)
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I can think of no reason why any account would be banned, unless you are exploiting/harming the community, which we will not do. Just because we play how we want (if we wanted to track the assassin to try to kill, that is up to us) does not mean that the devs can ban us.
Devs said we can change/alter the storyline. Period. If this holds true, then we must concentrate some of our teams on this, and that is why it was touched upon. We can only go on the information that the Dev's tell us, assuming anything makes an ass out of u and me. Forget what you know about other MMORPG's. This is MxO. Chanagable storylines, not a game but "the fourth film".... this is very different, and we can't assume what's going, or not going, to happen.
This is why the teams are being created. We have assessed various situations from within and outwith the faction. We are looking for a way to keep our members involved with the game, and make it more exciting, and also looking to get into the storyline.
If we sit back, and do nothing, we will never be involved.
The idea that The Furious Angels could be the saviours of Zion, and go down in history in WB script as such, is incredible.
Enough already. Votes have been cast, I think its an obvious victory for change, now we just have to concentrate on how to impliment it.
The problem is, there are times when these teams must work together. And they will falter and fail if one group flat out refuses to aid the other.
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Along with creating the groups, comes the responsibility that the group undertakes.
A PvP unit, in my mind (details to be worked out by Tbone and others I'm sure), would be to respond to unprovoked attacks. If they cannot (lets say they are already dealing with business), then the new targets should go on a PvP list, so we can get "revenge" as such. Deliver a message, and who knows - they might not do it again. If they do, PvP unit is called once more.
If it is their duty to respond to FA calls, then they must, but all jobs should be completed, no matter how long it takes to see these people again. After all, you must remember that people could gank our members, then log out for the night. They could do this every night. Even if the PvP team were free - they may not be able to make it to the area to assist.
I think they can refuse to offer assitance, depending on what the situation is, and what their current situation is. This is a high profile team, and they need to be drinking lots of coffee. PvP duties for the rest of the community needs addressed (or re-read by me if I missed it).
RP duties seem more relaxed. I think this should also include the inter-faction communications.
I think we need to see the dynamics of these things. For the few who don't like the ideas, they can still stay on their ships and not worry about it too much yet, I guess.
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Hmm... as far as the PvP unit will go, i have an idea about a way it could be organized... i'm thinking it should be organized in a military sort of way. it should have ranks, that way there will always be some kind of "commander" if you will, to lead the unit when there is a task at hand... in tbone's absence of course. i understand tbone is and always will be our commander, but in cases when he's not online or unavailable we will need others to take the lead in a battle for organization and effectiveness. furthermore, people that are a part of this unit need to actually do what needs to be done... i can't tell you how many times angels seem... unwilling to participate or help out in a battle type situation, which is very concerning to me... as well as a few others that i know of. and what about priority? will these units take priority over crew tasks? will these units even take priority over sitting around and doing nothing?
i'm just being honest... i dont want to be a member of a unit that isn't going to be taking the duties seriously. in the pvp unit for example, if we are called to take some people out, and theres 8 pvp unit members online, this isn't going to work if only 2 members of the unit respond...
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well the fact that they are in the PVP unit should make them more willing to respond. this whole thing is about splitting those that want to pvp into one group, and those that want to RP into another.
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I know I am new to the faction but I think this is a good idea to have volunteer based. Having said that, and reading others ideas I think these suggestions would be very helpful....
First... don't make the people trying to level up only PvPers... I, personally, think I am very good at talking to people and keeping an open line of communication, which would put me in the RP catagorie... however. I am just now reaching level 30... I would most definatly like to be able to defend myself which would make me want to grind whenever I am not busy RPing.. Also to this affect.. I know Zink is having a hard time getting help with mission teams..(send me a /t ingame Zink and I will run missions with you till the cows come home) but I have made friends in Red Cell and a few other factions just by offering to run a few missions with there lower levels... when everyone else was busy in archives or somewhere else collecting things *which allowed for an early open line of communication*.. (and I know I am not the only one that has many acquantinces in other factions)..
Secondly, in terms of PvP... I think everyone should have the opportunity, if needed, and we lack numbers that particular day, to join up and report for PvP support....
Thirdly... going back to Mazda's and Vinzuru's comments... I think that there should be a spy unit... a unit that we have that scopes out potential hiding spots so that the cavalry can come in and do what it does.... and the spies can also aid in the protection of the RP unit... I personally would like to know that I had three or four spies lurking in the shadows incase a negotiation or peace convoy gets ganked. and when I think of "dividing" the faction... I think units should be a subunit to crews...
Tbone
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Captains
| ---------- \
Crews----lieutenants
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--------------Units (RP, PvP, Spy)
On that note... I think the rank of lieutenant should be given able members who do not already possess the rank of-Captain... The lieutenants job would be to organize the units... They report to the Captains on all matters but when it comes to their units they are in charge as much as a captain is in charge of his/her ship....
On one final note... I also think we need to add a special forum that the RP people would be able to give access to other factions (via an access code or something) in order to discuss any pertanant matters that couldn't be discussed ingame. The forum would be much like a mix between this forum and our Blue Pill forum... It would have public access but only if the RP team gives their particular faction the access codes..... That way... When we think an alliance is in the works or a peace between factions is signifacantly progressed we give them access to the forum so they can bring things up and so that ALL Angels that arn't RP have a chance to see to it the alliance continues... and the RP team moves to the next alliance or peace treaty...
Just a thought... Thank you for your time.
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i like the RP forum thing, but we'd need to make sure that we change the access codes every month or so, just in case a clan disbans or something they can't spy on us for another organization.