The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Runjun on January 12, 2009, 02:31:34 pm
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Changed topic due to direction of the thread. There is another thread, "How will you fight?", that addresses the original purpose of this thread.
-Tbone
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Heh, I was actually about to post about this as well. I want to be a Mahirim and have been researching what difficulties it would present in a clan that is dominantly human/mirdain/dwarf. I've been reading this thread: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=103530 which the information is taken from this dev journal: http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/4883-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-26-Questions-Answered
Apparently NPC guards won't attack based on race?? However I think race equipment will have to be obtained from racial towns, making a central clan city difficult. Some will have to travel further to get their equipment. Also, as is mentioned in the dev journal, if a Mahirim and Mirdain are fighting/questing/traveling together and a human wishes to kill the Mahirim for extra alignment, the Mirdain would lose alignment trying to help the Mahirim by attacking the human.
What do ya'll think I should do? I'm a team player, and would like to do what is best for the clan.
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Yeah that's the big debate right now. I really don't like limiting our members' preferences, but at the same time I do not want to make things hard on the guild as a whole. Opinions are welcome regarding this matter.
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Well, it is beginning to become more clear what will and won't work. Those wishing to choose an "evil" race won't really be able to function effectively with those of us aligned with the "good guys". So, my suggestion is just to let applicants know that they have to be willing to choose a race that is aligned with the "good guys". This is not our restriction. This is a game restriction and I see no real problem with it. Its part of what makes this game a little different than others. No reason to agonize over something that isn't likely to change. Lets just do what works for FA
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...Those wishing to choose an "evil" race won't really be able to function effectively with those of us aligned with the "good guys". So, my suggestion is just to let applicants know that they have to be willing to choose a race that is aligned with the "good guys"...
Sounds good to me... I would imagine a large majority of people pick the "evils" because they want to do evil.
But I have to agree with Tbone, we must do what's best for the group.
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Yeah I know what you are saying. I guess I just don't want to have to say "conform or you're out" but does appear to be in the game mechanics. I suppose a good example would be Zion mervs and machs in mxo only mxo did not give the option to group with your enemy orgs/races.
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Yeah, I don't want to be evil though. I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim. One of them self hatin wolves!!! But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy... I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities. And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever... If your an evil evil person, does that make you good? Or just super evil? haha.
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So killing your own race gives you negative faction or whatever they call it? This could also pose. So how are say, humans or whatever race going to keep their own in check when need be? Are we going to have to contact a player from another race and say "hey this guy is being a douch, please come and kill him. Or is it ok for us to kill those who have negative faction with us?
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So killing your own race gives you negative faction or whatever they call it? This could also pose. So how are say, humans or whatever race going to keep their own in check when need be? Are we going to have to contact a player from another race and say "hey this guy is being a douch, please come and kill him. Or is it ok for us to kill those who have negative faction with us?
Declare war.
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Yeah, I don't want to be evil though. I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim. One of them self hatin wolves!!! But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy... I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities. And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever... If your an evil evil person, does that make you good? Or just super evil? haha.
A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you? He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.
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Yeah, I don't want to be evil though. I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim. One of them self hatin wolves!!! But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy... I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities. And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever... If your an evil evil person, does that make you good? Or just super evil? haha.
A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you? He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.
Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).
Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?
Well, that's just my opinion.
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Yeah, I don't want to be evil though. I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim. One of them self hatin wolves!!! But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy... I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities. And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever... If your an evil evil person, does that make you good? Or just super evil? haha.
A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you? He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.
Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).
Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?
Well, that's just my opinion.
Right, but if you compare it to MxO... if People A are Zion and People B are Machine, we're still fighting for People A under the belief that People B are "evil" or "the bad guys".
That being said, I've been giving some thought to our approach with enemy races. I think the approach we took with MxO was a good one. If an enemy race forms a clan, we can assume that one of that clan's goals is to destroy our race's clans. So if an enemy is in a clan, they are open to attack. If an enemy race is unaligned with a clan, however, we can assume he might be minding his own business, and we do not turn hostile unless aggrivated by him.
Obviously different clans will have different goals, and we might find some "enemy race" clans who are neutral to us or interested in trade or the like while I am sure there will be many many who will simply become KOS.
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This may or not belong in this thread but I'll post it here for lack of a better place.
What made FA amazing was playing hard to get, filtering out smacktards, tight knit group, organization.
What made us awesome in the "story" was that we chose to be the underdog, mysterious, good guys. Which ever race fits the above is the winner.
This is the part that's sorta off topic: As far as recruiting goes... I think we're really making a mistake if we don't create a challenge for the DF guild. It's what got us so many amazing players. The people who couldn't even make it past a semi challenging test were filtered out. The immature, non dedicated players were filtered out as well.
Seriously, IMO the recipe for FA's success was being mysterious, being elite/ hard to join, and being the good/underdog.
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Yeah, I don't want to be evil though. I guess I would be considered a rebel Mahirim. One of them self hatin wolves!!! But there's no game mechanics to facilitate this philosophy... I still wouldn't be allowed into the mirdain/human/dwarf capitol cities. And fighting my own race I imagine would still make me lose karma or whatever... If your an evil evil person, does that make you good? Or just super evil? haha.
A problem we will face if you are Mahirim is what do we do when were in a group and a human comes and attacks you? He takes no penalty in attacking you, but we would if we defended you.
Personally, I think that wouldn't be a problem. FA fights for what is right, even if the 'good side' think it's wrong. Say for example people A are at war with people B. You find a hapless person B who is under attack and you feel that it is wrong therefore you help them by attacking the attackers, thus losing 'karma' with people A (your own people).
Just like the 'Dark Knight' - aren't we the ones who take the fall and fight for what is right, even if the authorities think we are in the wrong?
Well, that's just my opinion.
That's the feeling I've gotten from this group so far. However, there's no need to make things difficult for everyone. If going red has severe consequences, having other races will become a hindrance to others. As a "good" Mahirim, I personally would try my best to avoid the fight. Being able to run on all fours would help me to flee, but assassinations would be difficult to avoid. Hopefully some smooth talking and fast running will get me out of these difficult situations. If the worst happens, then I guess it's my burden to bear.
Based on Tbone and FA's philosophies, I imagine we won't be going around killing people of other races just to get good alignment or loot or anything like that. We are not prejudice; we fight for justice. Killing people of similar or allied races is a non-issue. I believe that killing someone who has gone red gives good alignment regardless of race, correct?
So, it seems to me that the only issue is of protection. If a Mahirim is attacked by a Human, he is outside the protection of the clan because it will cause loss of good alignment. It is difficult at this time to determine how big of a deal this is...
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My personal preference will be put aside for what tbone and everyone decides is best for FA.
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I actually just sent out an email to address a few of these things. It pretty much falls right in line with what you are saying.
What made us awesome in the "story" was that we chose to be the underdog, mysterious, good guys. Which ever race fits the above is the winner.
The "good guys" are the Human/Mirdain/Dwarf. Humans are the obvious zerg. 25% of the population is going Human. Mahirim is actually the other zerg, with another 25% going there. Alfar are the "underdogs", but they are set as pure evil. The Mirdain is our primary race. In terms of being underdogs, since they are forest elves and everyone likes picking on elves, I'm sure they will have an underdog feel. Also, I believe only 13% plans on being Mirdain. They are also the most mystical and mysterious of the three good clans and considered to be the most intelligent. I think the Mirdains will work well with our personality. We'll have Humans and Dwarves as well, depending on who wants to play what race. The more I look at it, the less likely it's going to be that Orks, Mahirims, and Alfars will be able to roll with us.
This is the part that's sorta off topic: As far as recruiting goes... I think we're really making a mistake if we don't create a challenge for the DF guild. It's what got us so many amazing players. The people who couldn't even make it past a semi challenging test were filtered out. The immature, non dedicated players were filtered out as well.
Our current "open" recruitment has a deadline of January 21st at midnight. Every invitation we have sent out states the offer is only good until that time. I did that in anticipation that we would get a decent response and that by the time the game launches, we will need to think of more restrictive methods of recruitment. The reason we didn't do a challenge right from the beginning...
Mainly time. We've been following Darkfall Online, but not actively. The decision to jump head first into the community really didn't happen until the beginning of this month. Since we wanted to do some recruitment before release, we decided time was better spent creating a unique buzz or mysterious excitement through an intro instead of trying to create obstacles with a quickly-put together challenge.
Also, logistically a challenge just didn't make sense at this juncture. The structure of the Darkfall forums is such that recruitment threads cannot receive replies. So creating a popularity through people posting questions, observations, and general comments of intrigue and excitement aren't going to happen. We could post it on a different forum, but once someone figures out the end game is a clan invite and makes it known, there's a chance the thread will be deleted for not being in the Clan Recruitment section.
Really, if we want to do a challenge, we want to do it right. We wanted to get in the game first and get a feel for the game and our role in it before creating a sort of ARG around that world. That's what we'll focus on next. In the meantime, we'll focus on having thorough interviews and getting the best of the best.
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awesome sounds good.
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Is there any solid, in depth information on the game mechanics regarding this issue?
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Is there any solid, in depth information on the game mechanics regarding this issue?
You get negative rep for killing any of your own race or a race you are aligned with that you are not at war with. Negative rep makes you an outcast from almost all of your racial/ally cities.
The devs said that multi-race clans would be possible, but that they would be confined to be rogue outcasts that would have to stay away from all major cities and areas. While we are aloof, our role in the game isn't that of those that are hated by all. Also, if we want to be competitive in other areas of the game, we will need access to primary resources.
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How do those with negative rep appear to those of their own race with good rep?
Here is why I ask:
Assuming that we may want to retain good rep within our own races and alliance and assuming that we still lose good rep when killing one of our own race/alliance who has bad rep. Here is a proposal.
We have two units of Furious Angels. The Light Angels and the Dark Angels. The Light Angels are the Humans, Dwarves and what not who are generally thought of as "good". The Dark Angels are made up of all other races who are thought of as "evil".
Say we need a human, dwarf or elf dealt with, we call in the Dark Angels. If there if any others need dealing with, we call in the Light Angels to deal with them.
Now this does divide the Clan a bit, which is the down side of that idea. If we run into a large clan that we are at war with from one or the other side, that would limit our numbers to field agains that clan.
....this is just a thought process I thought I'd throw out there in its entirety
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I don't think that all of that is necessary. Like I said before, most of the people I assume we will target will be griefers or those we are at war with. Even if there are allied races that we need to target, this is not affected by having other races in the clan. The mirdain/human/dwarves will get the negative rep regardless. Correct me if I'm wrong, but getting negative rep is not an issue when considering adding other races.
To me the issues seem to be of the inability to protect other race members and what race seems to be most FA-ish. Also possibly the possibility of having other races in a "good" guild based on lore?
Obviously I want to be a Mahirim, but I'm trying to lay out information in an unbiased way that finds the issues, so that we can discuss if these issues are enough to make a clear decision. I hope I've been helpful and not added confusion! hehe.
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i think we should be good guys (I might even be convinced to don strange ears, long hair and scruffy clothes).
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I think we should be good guys (I might even be convinced to don strange ears, long hair and scruffy clothes).
I think we should be good guys also. However, not all who choose "good guy" races will actually behave as "good guys". I think it might do us well to be in a position to have members who will be able to intervene without a hit to their standing.
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I'd rather us hire someone out to do that dirty work for us. No need to have any blood be on any Angels hands directly.
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I've always struggled with the "good guys/bad guys" thing. The only game that really seems to draw a distinct line between the two is Warhammer Online. And for whatever reason, in the fantasy genre, the "bad guys" always seemed to appeal more to me.
I have a bad habit of seeing the world in shades of grey. There are no good guys or bad guys, there are only people who act in accordance with their beliefs. I haven't met a single person yet who will stand by their beliefs while also acknowledging that those beliefs are wrong to hold.
And frankly, with the Free-For-All-PvP system of Darkfall, I think this blurs the line even further between good and bad. If everyone can attack everyone, then why are we concerned with letting rival races into the group? At the end of the day it is an MMO. There will be people griefing their own side.
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This is no different than Horde vs Alliance in WoW. If a guild is alliance then you can't be horde simply put.
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That works fine for me too. It would make things more simple
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This is no different than Horde vs Alliance in WoW. If a guild is alliance then you can't be horde simply put.
The force is strong with this one.
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Mirdain > all. I'm surprised this point hasn't yet been made.
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I think we should be good guys (I might even be convinced to don strange ears, long hair and scruffy clothes).
Better than small ears, no hair and no clothes :P
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So it looks like everyone can at least agree that sticking to Mirdain/Human/Dwarf is the smartest choice for now. We can revisit the issue after we've been in game a bit and know the pros and cons, but for now please limit your race choice to one of those three. Most of us are starting Mirdain, so if you start Human or Dwarf, know that you might have to travel quite a ways before you can group up with the rest of us!
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Duly noted.
A human or dwarf wont' have trouble with any of the mirdain cities, will they?
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No. Due to their alliance, they should not.
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I'm not wishing to be a sheep and follow the herd, but it does make sense if the greater majority of us were close if the not the same race. Excellent plan.
Now given the danger of walking about the game alone as a lowbie, closer to release should we plan on who is who and stage meet ups? As in all the FA dwarves come together and leave their starting point in a group to join the others? Just seems safer and quicker if it was all orchestrated. And it might be a good first impression for other players, to see FA so organized right out of the gates.
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Yes, you are correct Lits. Currently you can join a usergroup tied to your race. You can also claim your specialty in a thread we have going. Once everyone has signed up on these, I will merge them so we will know who should meet up with whom to get started. Then hopefully it will not take long before the whole lot of us can group up together.
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....Currently you can join a usergroup tied to your race..... .
How do we do this?
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Click Usergroups up top and then select one of the three groups, click join, wait for Tbone's approval.
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Per some of the latest leaks, I might have to go Dwarf for crafting bonus:
Wisdom: Grants a bonus to all crafting and harvesting skills. Also moderately affects max mana and grants a slight resist bonus against curses.
Dwarf Starting Stats (Start with most Wis):
Str 20 / Vit 25 / Dex 15 / Quick 17 / Int 15 / Wisdom 25
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Yeah, I've been leaning toward Dwarf for the crafting bonuses, and because I think it'd be nice to have that extra toughness while out harvesting.
In fact, I just joined the Dwarf usergroup! Yay, one bit of indecision defeated!
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+1 participation point for Jaelum!
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Yes, you are correct Lits. Currently you can join a usergroup tied to your race. You can also claim your specialty in a thread we have going. Once everyone has signed up on these, I will merge them so we will know who should meet up with whom to get started. Then hopefully it will not take long before the whole lot of us can group up together.
And that's why you're the boss :)
Posted from my iPhone
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+1 participation point for Jaelum!
*giggles like a giddy school-girl*
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weirdo crafters. ;)
You know ever since SWG I swore of crafting. At launch SWG crafting was such a grind fest it's not even funny. Maybe I got a bad taste in my mouth about it but I think it's boring.
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I feel like, if I'm one of the few dwarves in the guild, I *have* to be able to make something. Doing otherwise would be like having a woman in the house who can't fix you pie.
If, however, crafting is utterly boring, I may not specialize in it but relegate myself to being able to cobble only basic supplies or components when needed. If it's challenging, though, I'd love to become the "go-to" guy for some type of item!
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Doing otherwise would be like having a woman in the house who can't fix you pie.
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/953/this1np8.jpg)
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I feel like, if I'm one of the few dwarves in the guild, I *have* to be able to make something. Doing otherwise would be like having a woman in the house who can't fix you pie.
If, however, crafting is utterly boring, I may not specialize in it but relegate myself to being able to cobble only basic supplies or components when needed. If it's challenging, though, I'd love to become the "go-to" guy for some type of item!
Playing dwarf@warhammer and I think I am going to something else in DF. Crafting doesn't appeal to me :/
I am still undecided, but preferring Mirdrain I guess