FA Discussion => Non-VR Games => Topic started by: Enoch on August 07, 2010, 11:18:29 pm
Title: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 07, 2010, 11:18:29 pm
This is to start a very early discussion about an idea proposition. I don't know if you guys have talked in the past about making a live-action video about the Angels. It's something that has come to mind as I'm seeing the things we're making for recruitment like videos using trailer footage and the audio plays that will be used in the challenge website. I'm just posting to say that if the idea ever gets some steam, I'd be more than happy to take the reigns of production.
My credentials? I am soon to graduate college with a film degree. I have worked on 37 short films since I began college, with budgets ranging from $300 to $10K, and in running lengths ranging from 3 to 25 minutes. Of the shorts I've worked on, 11 of them have been with me in one or more of the 4 lead creative roles (director, producer, cinematographer, writer). For the first time in my short career, one of the shorts I worked on was shown at the Cannes Film Festival this year in a short film collection.
My point. I know how to make movies. I know how to plan for them, prepare to shoot them, shoot them, and edit them. I'm not claiming to be the best at it, just saying that I'm not a beginner at it.
That said, maybe this thread can become where this idea flourishes. Considering the release of the game may be upwards of a year away from release, we have the perfect window to put something together that can wow recruits right as the game launches and the game community grows.
Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Tbone on August 07, 2010, 11:58:34 pm
I'm an actor and so is Lits, so in theory we could put together something decent. There would be a couple of huge hurtles, though. The biggest one would be getting all the participants in one location. Another one is a short, compelling story that is simple yet gets the FA ideas across. Another is copyright stuff since this is star wars. Another is how do we create something that would seem to be in the SW universe without being tacky (cheesy robe costumes and lightsaber effects). If we can address all of these problems, I am not opposed to the idea, but it would take considerable effort. Sell me on the specifics.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 08, 2010, 12:27:30 am
Right. I remember that you're an actor. You're right, that it would take a lot to make something like this work. It's a bummer that we're probably on opposite coasts because it would be awesome if you played yourself, considering you're an actor. But this doesn't necessarily require that you play yourself or that your character is necessarily the lead. It could even be a spin-off story that relates to the FA. I dunno, we can come to that hurdle later.
As far as copyright, I think we can get away with it. There are tons of Star Wars fan films made every year, many of them even exhibited at film festivals. As long as there is a disclaimer and we make no money directly from the film, we should be okay.
The biggest way to avoid being tacky is with high production value. We can avoid excessive light saber effects by having the story not have fight scenes. We can get away with a few scenes where there are sabers present. I know a few people in special effects that I can probably get to do the work for free. The robe costumes just have to be of decent quality. The problem with most SW fan films that use robes is that they have poor cinematography that doesn't flatter the appearance of the robes. Luckily, that is my area of expertise and I think I can make them appear believable.
I don't have any story ideas yet, but we can start discussing them as we build the FA SW lore. To address the elephant before it enters the room, I would suggest that the film be funded jointly by FA members. We can talk budget much much later.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Da6onet on August 08, 2010, 01:49:35 am
My wife happens to hold a BFA from Carnegie Mellon in costume design with a focus on on costume technology (fancy term for draping skills) and worked for the Shakespeare Theatre Company in DC in the costume shop for several years. Not sure what she could accomplish in the way of robes (though is nearby enough to fit Tbone if need be). I would imagine once a story was fleshed out her talents could be utilized.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Subb on August 08, 2010, 07:49:14 am
Quote from: "Enoch"
I don't have any story ideas yet, but we can start discussing them as we build the FA SW lore.
I dunno... every Star Wars fan film I've seen is pretty tacky, and I've seen amazing effects and good acting. But, if someone knows of a good one, send me the link :)
I personally think it'd be better if we did a CGI film (seeing as FA are among the uberest Force wielders and the best Saber duelists in the Galaxy), but there's more chance of me being Batman *shifty eyes*. Will be cool to do this, anyhow!
But if we decide to go on with doing a live action film, I'd love to do a voice over for a character (preferrably my own :p) since I live on the other side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Adad on August 08, 2010, 11:13:22 am
I call editor!
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Fuse on August 08, 2010, 11:44:55 am
Enoch + broin + adad = whoa.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Ash on August 08, 2010, 12:40:44 pm
Quote from: "Enoch"
...But this doesn't necessarily require that you play yourself or that your character is necessarily the lead...
Tbone's thoughts: "Now I didn't go through all the trouble of creating my own faction just to NOT be the lead of our own damn action movie."
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Manic Velocity on August 08, 2010, 08:34:47 pm
I'll get back into parkour just in case we have a chase scene.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Ghisteslwchlohm on August 08, 2010, 10:37:13 pm
(hope you don't mind the embed) This video is very well done with the action and effects. There's even a video explaining how to sufficiently edit the videos for lightsaberness here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q87rHvUVB0&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Da6onet on August 08, 2010, 11:28:51 pm
That is a very well done video from the standpoint of soundwork and effects work (pretty good on the camera work). If you take that fight scene video and add real acting, cinematography, makeup, costumes and a storyline, you'd have an actual cool short :-p
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Anamodiel on August 09, 2010, 08:13:00 am
I dunno. That movie screamed "NERDY/GEEKY/NEVER GOING TO LIVE THIS DOWN" more than, "Oh, cool!" I couldn't take that movie seriously, even if the lightsaber effects were actually really well done.
Of course, I'll support this effort 100% in whatever direction we take. I just personally think I'll enter into a new dimension of geekdom if I take part in this. haha...
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Adad on August 09, 2010, 09:43:49 am
Yea the two movies they did are very good effects wise, but obviously the acting is horrid and there's no plot or anything. The only fan vid I've seen that's any good as a whole is the one about Darth Maul's backstory because they went full board with costumes and everything. Even that, though is lacking in many areas of story. But then again, so are all the Star Wars movies ;)
I think the best Star Wars story line is actually in Force Unleashed. Don't know why I'm writing this, just thought I'd share. I am by no means a good writer so we'd need to find someone who is. That is where it all begins. So find a script and then we can discuss moving forward.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 09, 2010, 11:13:54 am
I think there's a great deal of tentativeness about the level of geekdom we're trying to walk into here. Let me tell you something, that I'm sure Tbone and Lits can probably back me up in. When you're making a movie, you're playing pretend no matter what. Even then, you have to take your work seriously.
I wouldn't do something for the movie because it's cool or nerdy. I would take every step with the highest level of professionalism to try and make an interesting and well made film, because I know if I don't, it's going to show in the final product.
Alec Guiness would constantly complain about the amount of cheese in his lines. But he came to work every day and delivered with the same professionalism and seriousness that he gave Shakespeare, and that's why he gave great performances as Obi Wan. So try and drop the concerns about it being lame and cheesy or of low quality. If we go in thinking like that, that's the movie we're going to get.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Tbone on August 09, 2010, 12:48:43 pm
An idea that popped into my head last night (after lots of drinking). Just jotting it down so I don't forget it in case any of it is useable.
----------- Lits is sitting in a forest, meditating. She is reciting the Jedi code ("there is no whatever, there is peace", etc.). Suddenly her eyes open and she says something like
"And when the darkness grows, I will awaken and ascend as a furious angel, restoring balance to the force".
She looks surprised at what she just said. A shadow goes over her face as if something flew over her. She stands up and looks around. Behind her we see a figure. She turns, but nothing is there. She walks that way a little and we see the figure is behind her on the other side. She turns again and sees Tbone.
Lits: Who are you? Tbone: I'm an angel. Lits: ...a what? Tbone: Don't act so surprised. After all, you're an angel as well. *he looks her over*. You certainly fit the profile. Lits: Profile? Tbone: Angels are said to be the most beautiful creatures in the universe. I'm a poor example, but you... Lits: Ha, nice try. Like I haven't heard that one before. Tbone: "And when the darkness grows, I will awaken and ascend as a furious angel, restoring balance to the force"
Lits is flustered. The dialogue continues about how these two have sensed each other across many galaxies and share a connection. Lits has sensed the connection growing, getting stronger, though she wasn't sure what it was. Tbone has traveled a long ways to meet her. Lits says something like "you don't even know me."
Tbone: "True, that's why I've come. To truly know someone, you must fight them"
Lits pulls out a lightsaber.
Tbone: You don't need that. We're going to fight up here *points to his head*
Lits puts the lightsaber away. They step closer to each other. They both close their eyes and lightsaber noises are heard. They are doing battle in their mind. They slowly walk closer to each other, eventually violently grabbing hands, as if the struggle was becoming physical. The leaves swirl around and the wind blows as the energy gets fierce. Finally they are very close to each other. Lits opens her eyes with determination. Tbone opens his eyes, surprised at the match he has met.
They fall down, Lits on top, Tbone defeated in their mind battle. In the heat of things, she kisses him. She finds her center and pulls away, standing up
Lits: "I...I'm sorry. That...is not allowed."
Tbone stands up and smiles.
Tbone: "With us...it is. Join us."
Lits: "Us?"
Tbone: *looks up as if refering to the clouds* "The Furious Angels."
He steps closer to her.
Tbone: "We need you. I need you."
They kiss as the camera pans away.
------------
I know stage combat, so we could actually do a lightsaber battle, but I think that's when it gets into trying too much to be too cool for school. Also, while I've used the name "Lits" and "Tbone", I don't imagine at any time their names actually being said, so it could just as easily be "An angel" and "Recruit".
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Adad on August 09, 2010, 12:50:47 pm
Quote from: "Tbone"
They kiss as the camera pans away.
Shocking ;)
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: LAZARUS on August 09, 2010, 12:57:30 pm
So wait, does everyone have to kiss Tbone to join the Angels? This wasn't in my interview....
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Tbone on August 09, 2010, 01:00:15 pm
Great stories aren't about what usually happens, but about the exception to the rule.
However, if you guys are in that dire need of some action, we can see if there are membership benefits at your local brothel!
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Adad on August 09, 2010, 01:06:20 pm
Quote from: "Tbone"
Tbone: "True, that's why I've come. To truly know someone, you must fight them"
Tbone, or Seraph?
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Lits on August 10, 2010, 12:38:38 am
Did anyone else get an overwhelming sense of sexing in that scene? :)
I'm on board, definately (assuming travel arrangements can be made for all involved). I'm a trained actor with a decent knowledge of makeup and *some* costuming.
I've been wanting to do something live action for ages, but didn't quite have the nerve to admit it, so hats off to Enoch!
Where would we film?
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 10, 2010, 12:17:48 pm
Very overwhelming. I'm working on a re-write right now. Glad you're on board. Well, I'm in Arizona. Lits is in CA. Tbone is on the East. We win 2 to 1, we're filming out west. Probably near the LA area would seem to make the most sense. But that's just my vote.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Tbone on August 10, 2010, 03:38:23 pm
There's no way I can make it out west. I currently only have one part time job, and my computer cost more than what I have in the bank right now.
Unfortunately, without me you run the risk of putting something together that I wouldn't want to represent FA. I'd want to be heavily involved with the project if it were to come to fruition.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Da6onet on August 10, 2010, 04:00:26 pm
Quote from: "Tbone"
There's no way I can make it out west. I currently only have one part time job, and my computer cost more than what I have in the bank right now.
Unfortunately, without me you run the risk of putting something together that I wouldn't want to represent FA. I'd want to be heavily involved with the project if it were to come to fruition.
So what you're saying is we need a producer :-p
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Fuse on August 10, 2010, 04:45:35 pm
Enoch, what kind of film camera do you have?
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 10, 2010, 04:51:49 pm
We definitely need a producer. I can co-Produce, but at some point I am assuming this turns into a normal film project where I bring in crew of filmmakers I know from outside of FA. I don't have a film camera. I have access to a few HD video cameras, including the Sony HVX and the Canon 5D and 7D. There are tons of rental houses where I can get other equipment. Tbone, regardless of your involvement as an actor, you will serve as Executive Producer, making all final decisions during pre-production. We'll be very thorough before a single frame is shot so that everything we're making represents the FA in the appropriate light.
EDIT: P.S. If you were to act in the film, your travel expenses would be part of the film's budget. Your financial situation would not affect that point.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Fuse on August 10, 2010, 05:29:05 pm
budget? Paid for by? I hear my T2i takes just as good video as the 7D, but I'm clueless on post processing/editing
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: LAZARUS on August 10, 2010, 08:34:35 pm
All films must have some sort of a budget, no matter how small scale this would all be. The truth is, at some point, someone's going to have to throw money at this. I think there's no point in doing this, if the project is going to have no production value. It'll hurt the Furious Angels more than it'd do us good.
And really, as nice as this idea sounds, a lot of things would have to go right. Maybe it can even be something we can do later, once the game has even released. The Angels I assume are always expanding on their story, so doing something that still involves us, no matter when, would be a good idea.
But we have to make sure not to do it half assed.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Enoch on August 11, 2010, 12:10:52 am
I was hoping to get past the initial story phase before talking money, especially since the story very much dictates the size of the budget. Yes, we'll have to find money to shoot this. No, I don't think it will cost too much, relatively speaking. I'm feeling it would be about a 3 to 4 minute short that can be shot over two days with a budget in the range of $400-$600 for production (before travel costs if we're moving Tbone cross-country), depending on what stuff we can get for free or by donation (props, costumes, etc). After we get the story cemented and we start planning, we can make a fund raising plan.
I'm feeling a lot of uneasiness and negativity guys. Maybe I'm reading into it. Like I said in the first posts, this is what I do. I'm nearing the end of film school, so I don't have many of my own projects to work on anymore. I would love to make this my next one, but I won't do it without your blessing.
Maybe we can postpone talking about this idea for a bit. There's a lot more pressing things like the challenge and the work already going into it.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Lits on August 11, 2010, 03:29:28 am
Hey no negativity here! There are a lot of us in this faction so as far as the money goes, perhaps we could all pitch in $5 or $10 for production costs.
And I don't think we necessarily have to do it pre-game... it could be something done at any point, but I'm excited and think we should go ahead as soon as possible. Perhaps just as soon as the challenge is completed?
As far as location for filming, if we want something wooded and near LA-ish, there is a nice green park about an hour from my house, and also Joshua Tree about two hours East of LA. If you want desert, we've got plenty of that, too. I'd of course volunteer my place to stay in lieu of paying for a hotel. It's not big, but it's a roof and a shower.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Adad on August 11, 2010, 08:41:20 am
Here's my question. If we actually DID go through all the hardships and effort to create some sort of live action movie. Why make it Star Wars related at all? I know then you can throw it out to the community for SWTOR, but who cares about them? And if you make one, they'll want to see more.
The Angels were created on the basis that we all loved the Matrix. I love Star Wars as much as the next guy, probably more than most when dealing with the original three, but the Matrix is where we got our roots. And if we make a movie about us, why not in the Matrix universe? Just me throwing out my two cents.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: Fuse on August 11, 2010, 09:12:35 am
I'm still kind of weary of how an FA movie could come out and look not-cheessy. It's not a question of anyones ability - but we certainly wouldn't have the ability and resources we have in a digital medium. I also kind of like that we never really put a real life face to our characters. It adds to the mystery of who FA is.
No negativity here either, but there are concerns you can't simply ignore and push forward through.
On a positive note, this could be a way to finally meet Broin.
Title: Re: FA Live Action Video
Post by: LAZARUS on August 11, 2010, 07:03:03 pm
Quote from: "Adad"
Here's my question. If we actually DID go through all the hardships and effort to create some sort of live action movie. Why make it Star Wars related at all? I know then you can throw it out to the community for SWTOR, but who cares about them? And if you make one, they'll want to see more.
The Angels were created on the basis that we all loved the Matrix. I love Star Wars as much as the next guy, probably more than most when dealing with the original three, but the Matrix is where we got our roots. And if we make a movie about us, why not in the Matrix universe? Just me throwing out my two cents.
I don't mean to shoot this down or anything, but this is kind of silly. This film would be to further establish the lore and story of the Furious Angels within the Star Wars world.
If it were something we were just doing for fun, then I could see why we might make a Matrix film, but we're not playing MxO anymore. Sure, that's where the Angels started, but that's not something we're doing anymore. The Matrix Online is over, as is any story going on with that.
Meanwhile, Star Wars is growing steadily, and I think it'll only grow more with the release of this game.
And as far as it looking cheesy, I think you're under estimating the film making process. Cheesy happens when you try to do too much, and don't put enough time and effort into it.
As far as this ENTIRE idea goes, maybe it's not such a good idea. The Furious Angels is a collective, we create our world together. The problem is, a film is quite different. When a lot of people start throwing in their creative input, you can tell in the finished product and it looks silly to have all these different ideas and you never establish any of them thoroughly.
So like my brother said, I think this should be postponed for a while. Maybe get some writing done before it's even brought up again.
Title: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: Enoch on September 19, 2010, 01:49:41 pm
Okay, so I've been working on this for a bit on my free time, and I thought it might be a good time to present an update. First, I've written the script. It's based on Tbone's story, but with some changes made to make more filmmable and to tone down the love story.
Here is the link to the script (https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BxK6p3Vbnh8xNDgwYzMxMGItY2VjZC00NDZlLThjMGUtYWJmNWM3NTQyNGZi&hl=en)
If anybody isn't familiar with reading script format, feel free to ask questions.
I've begun to storyboard the film, though I'm still re-working the shot list. As development continues, wardrobe, location scouting, and art design will finish shaping up the "look" of the film. I'll update with the storyboards soon.
The biggest concern when I started talking about this idea was with the budget. I have news. After talking to my brother (Lazarus), we've decided that we are comfortable with footing the bill. I'm still thinking somewhere around a $600-700 budget for a 1 or 2 day shoot. If we can raise more money between now and productions, we can make it all that more awesome. But that's a baseline that we can start to plan with.
I'm pretty sure I can get most of the equipment for the shoot from friends and some rentals, and my film school friends would more than gladly round out the crew. I would probably cast and shoot locally in the Phoenix, AZ area to minimize travel and housing costs.
Schedule-wise, I think we can keep developing until about December, begin pre-production in January, and shoot it over a weekend around late March. Edit it over a few weeks, and have it online by mid-April.
So, tell me what you think Angels.
Title: Re: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: Tbone on September 19, 2010, 02:05:21 pm
I like that ending better. I think it should be "We angels" rather than "Us angels", right?
Also, my name is "Cory", not "Corey"...heh.
Title: Re: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: NoCry on September 19, 2010, 02:11:37 pm
personally I expected something rather poor (not for any reason to do with you; I was just not at all sold on the idea); instead, I like it, I like it a lot and think that that, done correctly as you obviously intend, would be cracking.
A few comments on the script:
a) to know someone you need to fight em - too matrixy? but then again we should not forget our roots.
b) change "travelled to hear an angel worthy of speaking them" to "travelled to hear an angel worthy of hearing them"? or, instead of worth, "able" to hear?
Just my two cents; why timetable so long? that normal for something so short?
Tally ho.
p.s. copyright with you or the boss? or stay silent on it?
Title: Re: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: Enoch on September 19, 2010, 02:32:59 pm
Thanks for the quick feedback guys.
I like that change too Tbone. Sorry about the name misspelling.
NoCry, that felt great to read. The script is usually the first time people get a real idea of the movie. It's like saying "I'm gonna build a house" without showing a blueprint for it. I'll work with rewording what you mentioned i B.
As for the schedule, I'm being very generous. I'm involved in about a dozen other projects so I didn't want to short-change the timing of the process and have it end up not being enough time. Realistically, it probably won't take that long, but for best results I want to plan the shit out of this thing.
Title: Re: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: Subb on September 19, 2010, 03:27:28 pm
I quite like it, too.
I was thinking boss - would you be interested in a series of clips, ala the holorecords on swtor.com, to do with FA's history? Just as nice little info packages for our new site or something? I'd do the voice-overs myself, but I don't really have the 'wise' kind of tone... ha.
Title: Re: Update: FA Short Film
Post by: Tbone on September 19, 2010, 04:32:01 pm
Quote from: "Subb"
I was thinking boss - would you be interested in a series of clips, ala the holorecords on swtor.com, to do with FA's history? Just as nice little info packages for our new site or something? I'd do the voice-overs myself, but I don't really have the 'wise' kind of tone... ha.
The problem with this is that we want to remain mysterious and not give away too much information about ourselves. Once you are able to beta test Phase 4 of the challenge, I think you'll be pleased with how we give information there. I was, however, thinking about creating something very similar for actual FA members - to extend the RP even after they get in the faction.
My idea was that, after you Ascend, AP (Ascension Program, the hologram who talks to you during the challenge) would then take you through some sort of training to make sure all new members were prepared, RP-wise. These would just be a series of videos that would pop up like they do in our Media section currently. Only members would have access to them, and new videos would be posted as our story within the universe evolves.
I don't know how much of that would be RP and how much of it would break it (download Teamspeak, check the forums, etc. etc.).