The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => Non-VR Games => Topic started by: Tbone on March 23, 2011, 06:38:54 pm
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Got this PM from Font, leader of Eternal Vigilance:
"Hey Tbone,
I don't believe I've formally introduced myself to you yet - I'm the leader of Eternal Vigilance. We have been aware of The Furious Angels since you first entered the community with your 'transmission,' which greatly impressed us. I thought I'd drop you a friendly hello and touch base, since it appears that we are headed towards the same server type and region.
Has your guild made any plans for Phase 2 at this point? If you don't mind me asking, of course; we're currently exploring our options and TFA certainly ranks high on the list of guilds we have a great deal of respect for."
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If I remember right, people actually thought FA was an offshoot of Eternal Vigilance for a while?
Did a bit of research. Good-sized guild, 64 members according to the guild summary on SWTOR.com. It's a multi-game community, judging from their website. PvP focus, but they mention accepting "all playstyles", so they'll probably have at least a few Rpers involved. There was an official declaration of war (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=271250) between them and a guild called Jen'jidai (http://www.legend-gaming.net/jenjidai/).
As far as allies go, they seem like a solid bunch to watch our backs.
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I don't know what is our stand on Guild Alliance as we are (in the backstory of the guild) misterious and very few have seen us (since people just go crazy and think they see people with wings).
RP-wise aside... Its very dangerous to go around forming Alliances with random guilds, as i have learned from my past mmorpgs experience. But EV seems to be organized and i really i can't say they are bad in any way. And it is true that as Empire gulds have well over 90+ players... We might need the numbers.
On the other hand... How would this Alliance affect us outside TOR? Will we be granting access to TS? Partial Access to the Forums? Will they do the same?
Note: I don't really like how he called us TFA :S
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Alliance is a strong word. Pre-game "alliances" are just to make sure you end up on the same server. For instance, we want to be on the same server as Revan's Legacy, Eternal Vigilance, and Jen'jidai. We know all of those guilds. That doesn't mean we have to form something with rules or forums or anything like that. It just means we will end up on the same server.
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i don't like tfa either. my first thought was airport security lol
and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
anyway, it doesn't hurt to make friends pre launch, right? i agree that alliance is a strong word right now. i mean, we are awesome, so let ppl kiss ass ;)
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...and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
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I don't see anything wrong with becoming more than acquaintances with them. It would certainly be fun to end up on the same server as them.
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...and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
O.O
Seriously?
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...and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
O.O
Seriously?
100%
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...and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
Old FA member? Or just a big fan?
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I don't see anything wrong with becoming more than acquaintances with them. It would certainly be fun to end up on the same server as them.
Don't take it wrong... i would agree with making more friends... but i dont take just ANYONE as my friend... as the other say Alliance is a big word... especially since i dont know anything abut them... and how it would develop my relationship with them OUTSIDE of the game... which in any rare case could be more than in-game
And about his FA logo behind his neck... i dont know if he was a FA before or w/e but im more than willing to kick his ass... (respect to Jen'Jidai but seriously... i dont play for any other reason than winning in all scenarios.
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Nothing is going to be decided until we see how these guilds and players behave in game...
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Nothing is going to be decided until we see how these guilds and players behave in game...
Well, we DO have to decide if we want to be on the same server or not as these guys. That's the second stage of the guild thing, picking "allies" (i.e. Republic guilds) and "enemies" (i.e. Sith guilds) that will help make sure Bioware puts the guilds you want to play with all on the same server. So, this is nothing concrete, just a "Hey, let's roll on the same server as these guys."
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...and isn't Jen'jidai woodgrain's people?
You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
O.O
Seriously?
100%
Hahahahahaha; I forgot about that. Eejit.
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I like these chaps; alliance can mean anything - it could just equate to watching backs. I do not feel we ought to alienate people at this stage and they look well organised. Could help from an RP perspective too.
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You forgot to mention the most important part... The leader of Jen'jidai has the FA logo tattooed on the back of his neck!!
Old FA member? Or just a big fan?
Both. He was a member for about a year or two. He got the tat, and it was later decided that he wasn't a good fit for the group.
As for EV, they seem like a decent group. I haven't interacted with any of them personally, but they conduct themselves rather similar to us. It would be cool to team up with them from time to time.
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http://www.revans-legacy.com/vb/showthread.php?984-Greetings-from-Eternal-Vigilance
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http://www.revans-legacy.com/vb/showthread.php?984-Greetings-from-Eternal-Vigilance
For those who care not to register on their forums, why don't you copy and paste what you want us to read.
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Didn't know it was needed.
It's Raeth of EV getting friendly with RL. Not an issue, as I think we're pretty friendly with them as well and it seems still RL.
Hello Revan's Legacy,
I wasn't exactly sure where to post this, so I figured this was the best spot.
First off let me introduce myself, I am Raeth, I have been playing MMO's for many years and have now been a member of Eternal Vigilance since September 2010.
I come to you today as an ambassador from our guild's Diplomacy Agency in the hopes of striking up some fun cross faction interaction. Eternal Vigilance is a republic aligned guild, however our philosophy is that the Jedi order is flawed and we will use whatever means necessary to ensure the safety of the republic. We are planning to be on some sort of PVP server, and do not shy away from RP.
I invite you all to enjoy our forums at http://www.evcitadel.com/home/
Pop by and say hello, thanks for your time and I look forward to a future with healthy competitive interaction between our two guilds.
Again, not pointing out anything bad with this, just an observation of them really branching out making contacts.
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Interesting point of view they (EV) have there.
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It appears that quite a bit of the old MXO people may end up in the same place. This of course could be good... AND of course could be bad.
For right now I think it's not to bad of an idea to strike up some freindly relatinoships and rivalries with various guilds.
Keep your options open... Keep your intel flowing... and Keep an eye on everyone
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I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask...does FA have any..."unfinished business" from MxO? Any reds/guilds of reds that just couldn't handle getting ganked constantly and hold a non-friendly grudge?
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Trucidos/Psy comes to mind along with any of the people who were banned for exploiting like Untouchable. Then there were individuals who were bitter because our teamwork could usually mess up their plans for world domination - an example that comes to my mind would be when reds would take over the main spawn point in Mara with 20+ people and there were only 3 of us online. Not enough to assault directly, but after a few people dropped from synchronized snipes they fled like bugs when you turn on the light (not assuming any of you live in unsanitary conditions, just using imagery).
Long ramble short, there were a handful of individuals, but not overall groups that truly despised us. I think the only people organized enough to still continue any form of dislike would be Morpheus'/Revan's Legacy, and they were the "good guys" in MxO. Most of that dislike came in my mind from competing interests. They wanted to be the best, most recognized Zion faction in the game, and felt that we were an impediment to their success. I kind of get the feeling now that because they won't be competing with us in that regard in SWTOR that they see us now as a novelty (like "oh, FA are red to us, that's cute).
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We always had a good gag with the dark evolution lot.
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It appears that quite a bit of the old MXO people may end up in the same place. This of course could be good... AND of course could be bad.
For right now I think it's not to bad of an idea to strike up some freindly relatinoships and rivalries with various guilds.
Keep your options open... Keep your intel flowing... and Keep an eye on everyone
R.I.P. *shudders* They exploited and ended up getting banned from MXO. I don't think they are even around the MMO community anymore though.
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So I convinced Cordo Font to come on our TS to chat about their loose "alliance". Here's what I got...
-The agreement (http://evcitadel.com/home/index.php?pageid=tigev) is only for Phase 2 and does not extend past that. They don't want any kind of council or super-alliance. Like us, they want the freedom to make their own choices.
-They want the pact to contain two Republics and two Imperials. So Republic would be FA and EV. Imperial would be Imperial Guard and whoever we decide on for the other Imperial.
-Roleplay with the Imperials would NOT lead to peace agreements...red is dead would remain in tact.
-They have a VERY similar play style and RP background as us. They are well rounded (PvP, RP, etc.) and are a secretive organization based on Coruscant that is getting a little bit more into the front lines for the timeline of the game. They also have around the same number of members and highly discourage trash talking and griefing.
-Picking them as a Phase 2 partner would mean we would need to pick the two Imperials as well, meaning we would have no room to choose guilds outside of the four person pact to make sure we are on the same server with. This is done to ensure that the four of us are on the same server. (David Bass commented that he would prefer guilds to do it this way. Chaining them lessens the chance of everyone ending up together).
Overall he left a pretty good impression. I got the idea that they are very similar to us and that we're not really going to find another group that's as close to the same page as us. Strategically I think it would benefit us to make sure we are on their server.
I made it clear that we aren't interested in an official alliance, and he said they weren't interested in something like that either. It's only about finding someone you want to make sure you are on the same server with.
So it's a tough decision...I'm leaning towards us going through with it, as I really don't think we're going to find a better fit to our Phase 2 linkage.
The good is that these guys are on the same wavelength as us. Not only are they mature gamers, but they're the same size as us and RP in kind of the same way. It saves us the trouble of having to find three guilds to link up with and guarantees that we'll have some friends when we get in. It's non-binding past Phase 2, so there's little commitment.
The bad is that we'll have to put our name on it. That a concession in and of itself. We won't have the freedom to pick and choose our other adversaries/allies (we'll have to work with them on the fourth and the Imperial Guard has already been chosen). While there's nothing binding now, it could be a slippery slope landing us in some unwanted drama or alliance.
After talking to him, I'm actually leaning towards going with it. We really don't have any other strong candidates. There's the MxOers (Revan's Legacy, JoKerZ), but both of those guilds are only a handful of people, and it wouldn't surprise me if they switched to whatever server we ended up on anyway. If we DON'T do it, we run the risk of ending up on a server where no one really shares our ideals/mindset and we have an uphill battle of trying to create the environment we prefer to game in. At least this way, we have friends and foes that we know could make for some interesting gaming.
What do you guys think?
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I'm loving this idea - especially if they are so similar to us. They already have made a name for themselves, as we have, and they seem very active. Having allies (even if not "an alliance") with another strong guild when there is expected to be a much higher population could be a great thing. I'm thinking realistically how we can utilize eachother - not just in RP, but in active engagements. I'm thinking large scale raids/pvp cooperation.
What I don't want to see is it get lopsided. FA will be a name known on the server, but part of my goal will be to have FA the number one name - not number two and EV's friend. If we were to become known as the strongest two guilds on the server without an overwhelming advantage to EV, then I could see it as a great thing.
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I thought of the same "rivalry" Fuse spoke above... But seriously... (im new in FA so im ofcourse counting me out) You guys have experience making FA famous... We will just become number one guild... and EV MIGHT be FA's friend... (OK enough of looking down on em, they might be good players too)
On the other hand. Making sure we stick together with people like us... it just ensures that our server will have a strong RP community. Having sayd that, I vote for a go on the "Alliance", However! Take in mind I DO NOT approve of seeing them as Allies and so I don't really wanna be stuck with them once the game launches.
Oh I almost forget about this... It's really important to choose the enemies too... but the problem is... we don't really interact with any of em... so we don't really know how they behave, and if they are good for our server. It would be good to find a cool RP guild... And who knows, we might end up making cross-faction events thru the SWTOR forum
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnuflMuvSnw&hd=1
Got to say, these Imperial Guard have class.
It's good that they're not seeking to establish a Council of some kind, OOC or IC. I say go with it.
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Check out Imperial Guard (http://www.imperialguard.org/)'s website. They seem very professional.
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do it.
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I'm glad they aren't seeking a council / alliance. That's probably my main concern.
I'd definitely like the idea of having a friendly alliance (ugh, i hate that word) along with a friendly rivalry with RL. Don't know much about TIG but they seem to have their act together from the site and vid. I can definitely see us all having very similar play styles.
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Question about mechanics of the game. In Darkfall there were guilds and then there were alliances made up of said guilds. I really hope TOR does not go that route because then many guilds will see that as the next natural step for their group. Indeed, it can sometimes be the only way for many of the smaller groups to succeed on a larger scale. In MxO I liked that there were no formal ties between us and say Fallen Horizon or SOTI, but we still got along well and pursued similar interests (kicking red ass, rp events, etc).
All that aside, I don't mind gaming along side EV guys, but I am weary that they started to publicly write down rules/pledges/gospel. It becomes very easy to begin proclaiming more and more "reasonable" or "lofty" ideals, to the point where you stop believing your shit stinks and everyone else who doesn't agree with you is wrong. I just want to make sure they don't evolve into zealots.
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Tbone brought up all of my concerns in our meeting with Font last night. Mainly that we would become a smaller chunk of a larger group, and that we would be beholden to whatever terms/rules they decide upon as far as play style. Font made it very clear that this is not the goal of this agreement.
If he holds true to what he said; that this is only pertains to "Phase 2" of guild registration on the TOR site, to ensure that like-minded guilds wind up on the same server, and that nothing about the agreement extends beyond that, I'm totally for it. EV sounds like a great group of people. I kind of feel like we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we snubbed them (however politely).
Part of me would rather this sort of thing happen naturally. In MxO, our interactions with other factions were not the result of any document we signed. It was all very fluid and organic. But where MxO was so small that it was hard to not get to know anyone, TOR will be much bigger in scope making that kind of interaction more difficult. It makes a lot of sense to set it up beforehand in this case.
As long as the agreement allows us to maintain our indepenence and image, I can't think of a good reason to oppose.
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Part of me would rather this sort of thing happen naturally. In MxO, our interactions with other factions were not the result of any document we signed. It was all very fluid and organic.
I would prefer this idea too but really I'm just along for the ride. I guess the real concern I might have is what if 5 months after launch these groups we sided with to go over to whatever server all break up or end up not being the type of guys/gals we want to play with.
I'd also prefer if we as a guild decided what server we want and don't just go to whichever one a large consensus of another group wanted. Seems to me a group wanting to make a name for itself should be picking it's own and not just following a trend. Though both of these problems can be fixed with an open beta since then we could get to know those we sided with and get a feel for the other people on the servers.
But that's just my two cents and I might be missing out on some info sense I just started reading this at page 2 :p
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...Strategically I think it would benefit us to make sure they are on our server...
Edited for correctness.
Everything else T said I agree with. I also think we should talk with Mercio of RL and see if wants in on this "agreement".
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I'd also prefer if we as a guild decided what server we want and don't just go to whichever one a large consensus of another group wanted.
TOR is using the Guild HQ system to pre-assign guilds automatically to servers. In other words, we wouldn't get to choose regardless. We choose preferred time zone, whether we want a PvP server, and hopefully whether we want it to be RP as well, and then they form our guild waiting for us on a server before the game goes live.
We could still try to reform it on a different server, but it isn't clear yet how difficult that will be and there would be no guarantees that the name would stay reserved and we'd have to add everyone back in manually instead of your first created character already being a part of it.
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Got this follow up today:
Hey Tbone,
Just wanted to follow up from last night and say that I enjoyed our
conversation. Of course, there are some key decisions you'd have to
make in order for us to move forward - but I'm happy about how
everything has started off.
There are just a few more things I want to touch on that I neglected
to mention last night. First of all, I'm not sure if I've properly
stressed that we aren't quite extending an invitation just yet. We are
exploring options to bring to the table with TIG, at which point we
would vote, and it is entirely within TIG's rights (as described in
our agreement) to vote "no" for whatever reason. That is of course
very doubtful, but I point it out to emphasize that your admission
into the agreement isn't EV's decision alone. If you were to let us
know that you're interested in escalating negotiations to the next
level, we'd invite you to a chat with TIG's leadership and provide an
opportunity for your two guilds to get to know each other better. TIG
has done the same with Warmadden and is slightly further along in the
process of selecting that second Sith guild - I have my first meeting
with them tonight.
I also mentioned that tweet by David Bass, and considering our
agreement hinges on some slight assumptions about the phase program, I
think it's important to stress that David Bass has lent it some
credibility: http://twitter.com/#!/doctordake/status/53892869345394688
Lastly, to touch on your concerns about entering into a binding
agreement, if we were to get technical... I wouldn't call this an
"alliance" by traditional usage of the term. Just an agreement to land
on the same server via Bioware's phase program, and to be open-minded
about cooperation down the road (should it benefit our guilds and the
server community). I talked a bit about "impacting the population of
our future server" but may not have sufficiently elaborated upon that;
we want to ensure a large population of mature members are landing on
the same server, but I also have my eye on the current Republic vs.
Sith ratio. At the moment, the east coast PvP scene is tilted heavily
in favor of the Sith in terms of population.
Here is a thread posted today that provides some insight into that:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=306616
If you take a look at some of the top Republic guilds heading to an
east coast PvP server, I think you'll agree that many of them are also
lacking in quality. This is why I want to take advantage of an
opportunity to ensure that two fairly large-sized, quality guilds such
as our own, land on the same server. I enjoy playing underdog as much
as anyone, but I intend to work with what little control Bioware has
given us, to attempt to swing the odds a bit more in our favor.
Hopefully this has provided you with some additional insight into my
thought processes. I look forward to hearing back from you,
Cordo
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So this is something David Bass is actually keeping an eye on. His look into ratios between sith and republic were good work as well. East coast servers are going to be pretty dominantly sith populated in terms of PVP.
Over time this could even out, but you have to admit that the classes for sith are pretty sexy in terms of pvp appeal with lightning based knockbacks (SI) flamethrowers (BH) and long range sniping (IA). Its no surprise that PVP enthusiasts would pick the sith over jedi here. I dont think even picking guilds with the same base population will stop this one. Imperial are just visually cool to a pvper.
FA is no stranger to out manned or outgunned situations and has come out on top often. So being outnumbered on our server is just going to be another day at the office (by accounts of your MxO stories) But picking good mature like minded guilds with a focus will help our server be mature and lack the griefing and trashtalking components that plague many pvp servers.
This still seems to be a good move for us to team up with EV on a server.
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So this is something David Bass is actually keeping an eye on. His look into ratios between sith and republic were good work as well. East coast servers are going to be pretty dominantly sith populated in terms of PVP.
Over time this could even out, but you have to admit that the classes for sith are pretty sexy in terms of pvp appeal with lightning based knockbacks (SI) flamethrowers (BH) and long range sniping (IA). Its no surprise that PVP enthusiasts would pick the sith over jedi here. I don't think even picking guilds with the same base population will stop this one. Imperial are just visually cool to a pvper.
FA is no stranger to out manned or outgunned situations and has come out on top often. So being outnumbered on our server is just going to be another day at the office (by accounts of your MxO stories) But picking good mature like minded guilds with a focus will help our server be mature and lack the griefing and trashtalking components that plague many pvp servers.
This still seems to be a good move for us to team up with EV on a server.
I agree with paitryn this would be a good move for us. Even if we don't end up having any sort of an alliance with them they would still be someone beneficial to have on our server. I like how they want to make sure we have a good and mature server community.So far I haven't seen any red flags in what they want to achieve since they basically want to just make sure that they have a good server community and to make sure pvp is balanced somewhat.
We should invite some of the members from TIG over to our server to see what they are like. Their website and what I have read on their forums looks pretty good. Maybe you should get in contact with their leader T.
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I can't help but finding the numbers on the Guilds per Type Reasearch that guy did... somewhat weak, or unaccurate... I mean... Yeah Empire just wipe Republic numbers in PvP Servers... but Republic wins over Empire in RP servers... Take in mind that not ALL of the PvP Guilds are going to RP, in which case the Guilds under RP Category is the numbers we gotta look at... and those are telling us that we wont really be the underdogs... as we have over 50% more guilds than them...
Having sayd that, also note that there are alot of guilds with extremely low numbers... Althou, from what i have seen, Empire guilds tends to be bigger than Republic ones.
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So far there is no RPPvP server, so we could very well get grouped up with regular PvPers. Hopefully that will change, but as of now, that's not an option to choose from.
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East coast servers are going to be pretty dominantly sith populated in terms of PVP.
It's also worth keeping in mind that this only applies to world pvp and that things like battlegrounds or arenas (to use a WoW analogy) will be a strict x vs x ratio. Questing, gathering, exploring, and RPing might become a challenge at times but the pvp focuses will be the same all over.
This might even play into the Republic's favor since a larger pool of players means a better likely hood of facing fewer people who know what they are doing and a constant struggle to perform minor task may speed up the learning process for the Republic side.
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TOR is using the Guild HQ system to pre-assign guilds automatically to servers. In other words, we wouldn't get to choose regardless. We choose preferred time zone, whether we want a PvP server, and hopefully whether we want it to be RP as well, and then they form our guild waiting for us on a server before the game goes live.
We could still try to reform it on a different server, but it isn't clear yet how difficult that will be and there would be no guarantees that the name would stay reserved and we'd have to add everyone back in manually instead of your first created character already being a part of it.
An interesting idea. Not sure how practical it is and I hope they test that in open beta (if we get one).
Is there anywhere though where people have requested a RPPvP server? It should go without saying to create one but the lack of ability to designate that desire specifically has me worried.
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An interesting idea. Not sure how practical it is and I hope they test that in open beta (if we get one).
Is there anywhere though where people have requested a RPPvP server? It should go without saying to create one but the lack of ability to designate that desire specifically has me worried.
Well in swg starsider became the unofficial rp community and a lot of them are coming over to tor so I'm sure even if we don't get an official server we will get an unofficial one.
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East coast servers are going to be pretty dominantly sith populated in terms of PVP.
It's also worth keeping in mind that this only applies to world pvp and that things like battlegrounds or arenas (to use a WoW analogy) will be a strict x vs x ratio. Questing, gathering, exploring, and RPing might become a challenge at times but the pvp focuses will be the same all over.
This might even play into the Republic's favor since a larger pool of players means a better likely hood of facing fewer people who know what they are doing and a constant struggle to perform minor task may speed up the learning process for the Republic side.
Yeah im all to familiar with the WoW model of both world pvp and battleground pvp. hopefully we won't have the WoW model of world pvp and from the sounds of it unlikely.
yes battleground pvp (which was the only pvp that granted rewards until arenas became the dominant pvp) are more FPS esque maps that require small squad based strategies, but World PVP will be where players tend to have our RP based battles, towns (while not our main planets like coruscant, im sure sith will try to invade or take over smaller quest areas similar to the crossroads) and other areas of interest will be fought over.
there has been many requests for RPPVP servers on the forums, the old SWG starsider community actually did not form any guilds until this was confirmed (as well as the low number of enemies and allies) to ensure they picked a server to meet their needs. (starsider community consists of a sizable number of guilds though the numbers are probably small in comparison) there is a pretty high demand by RP guilds to have an RPPVP server.