FA Discussion => Non-VR Games => Topic started by: Tbone on October 12, 2011, 06:06:35 pm
Title: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on October 12, 2011, 06:06:35 pm
One thing's for certain - in its current form, it's going to be very difficult to put together an FA uniform.
For one, each class has a completely different look, so we will basically need to find FOUR uniforms, one for each class. However, seeing as different advanced classes have different armor restrictions, we actually need to find EIGHT different uniforms. For instance, the Jedi Guardian can wear heavy armor, whereas the Jedi Sentinel cannot.
Compounding to this problem is that there is no appearance tab and very few clothing items actually support switching out mods at this time. Stats seem to be directly tied to the gear, and once you outlevel it, its useless.
There is, however, a significant movement to allow the freedom to wear clothing based on style choice. I recently read this article (http://torwars.com/2011/10/12/everyone-wears-white-after-labor-day-in-the-old-republic/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torwars+%28TORWars%29) which surprisingly talked a lot about The Matrix Online. So much so that I had to make sure that it wasn't ME who wrote the article...haha.
The one silver lining is that I was able to use the wardrobe feature to look at high level PvP gear and, for whatever reason, most of it is WHITE. So even if the system stays as it is, a good number of classes will have a decent option for an FA uniform at a high level. The problem is that EVERYONE might be wearing this gear.
Crafting/mods/armor is still something that's greatly in flux in the beta, so we'll have to see what the final product will be. In the meantime, those in the Beta should keep an eye out and write down the name of any gear that could provide a good choice. At the very least, we'll have an RP uniform with shitty stats.
What we have so far:
Everyone: Crystal: Mastercraft White Eviscerating (http://db.darthhater.com/items/36804/mastercraft_white_eviscerating_crystal/)/Hawkeye (http://db.darthhater.com/items/21303/mastercraft_white_hawkeye_crystal/)/Indestructible Crystal (http://db.darthhater.com/items/21095/mastercraft_white_indestructible_crystal/) (any white crystal will do, but these are the best.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: JazzyC on October 13, 2011, 10:31:42 am
I would hazard a guess at saying a Cosmetic/Appearance tab is being worked on. However, in the grand scheme of things, it's little more than fluff, and something that can be dealt with at a later date.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ReReminiscence on October 13, 2011, 11:23:55 am
Well whit would work for us in the long run with being angels yet having everyone look like us would royal suck. Though I do support the uniform idea Boss that is a hell yes from me at least. Kinda one reason I didn't enjoy Rift so much in the end we all looked the same.
I'm sure they will have appearance modifying items for clothing as its is a Star wars game that a good group of people are looking to role play in ( me being one of them)
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Manic Velocity on October 13, 2011, 12:22:44 pm
In MxO the only restrictions on gear were gender and level. This made it easy to create a uniform that everyone in the faction could wear. And it was mostly for show anyway. We rarely wore our uniforms into battle.
In TOR, (correct me if I'm wrong) there's the added restriction of gear being class-specific. Meaning a Sentinel can't wear the same stuff as a Smuggler. If this is the case, I think we can lean towards a more personalized uniform as long as we all agree to an emphasis on white as the primary color.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Ragnarok on October 13, 2011, 01:24:50 pm
Quote from: "ManicVelocity"
In TOR, (correct me if I'm wrong) there's the added restriction of gear being class-specific. Meaning a Sentinel can't wear the same stuff as a Smuggler. If this is the case, I think we can lean towards a more personalized uniform as long as we all agree to an emphasis on white as the primary color.
Manic it doesn't quite work like that.TOR has 3 types of armor light, medium, and heavy. Certain classes can wear all armor while others are restricted to one or two types. Also the best armor in the game is either crafted or from pvp, currently their is only 1 top tier pvp set (technically 2 but one isn't as good as the other).
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Paitryn on October 13, 2011, 05:02:52 pm
Well right now crafted gear is useless compared to the orange stuff which is a rare loot drop. (only thing in this build with mod slots) so Honestly we are going to have no clue until they settle on an Itemization that is decent enough for the players. last build the system was overcomplicated and didnt accomplish what they wanted (you really couldn't swap out gear completely) this build is even worse because there is practically NO moddable gear save for the weapons you get for your AC and extremely rare loot drops (i've found a pair of bracers for a sage so far...thats it.)
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Ragnarok on October 13, 2011, 05:42:01 pm
Quote from: "Paitryn"
Well right now crafted gear is useless compared to the orange stuff which is a rare loot drop. (only thing in this build with mod slots) so Honestly we are going to have no clue until they settle on an Itemization that is decent enough for the players. last build the system was overcomplicated and didn't accomplish what they wanted (you really couldn't swap out gear completely) this build is even worse because there is practically NO moddable gear save for the weapons you get for your AC and extremely rare loot drops (I've found a pair of bracers for a sage so far...that's it.)
Yeah they royally screwed up mods this build.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ZephixLeer (Zephic) on October 13, 2011, 07:49:33 pm
Just a note I saw on the forums: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9824767#edit9824767
So, although it doesn't look like we're headed towards a 100% customizable crafting system for launch, they do intend to change things a little here and there. It seems like the modification system this build was a test of one extreme (being only the orange stuf was really mod-worthy.) Maybe we'll get a build somewhere between the two extremes at launch. Being able to find items that we can mod easily, but the more rare ones being the better choice with higher base stats. *shrug* We'll have to wait and see, I guess.
Quoted below...
"It’s clear many of you are very interested in the Item Modification system (and understandably so!) and the various changes it has undergone. However, we’d like to remind you that it’s very difficult to get a good impression of an article’s meaning via Google translate – subtlety and context are often easily lost by automatic translations. Translating in general can be very difficult and can lead to confusion or misinterpretations.
It’s very important to keep in mind that we actually use our Game Testing Program to test the game. This means that sometimes we make radical changes to systems in order to gather the feedback we need. This testing allows us to find what works the best and is most fun for players. The Item Modification system is a system that has required some changes and testing as we feel out what players enjoy the most. In one build, items that can be modified may be rare. In another, they may be ubiquitous. Through testing, we’ll try several implementations, gather feedback, and make changes accordingly.
When Daniel spoke about Item Modifications, it is likely that what he spoke about reflected the implementation that was currently in testing – not necessarily the final intended state of the system (and we say “likely” because after talking with Daniel, he doesn’t have an exact recollection of what he said; he does do a LOT of interviews!). We haven’t delved deeply into discussing Item Modifications officially, and one reason for that is exactly what you’re seeing here: talking about things while they’re still in testing (and thus in flux) can be confusing to the community, so we do avoid it when we can while still trying to share information about the game.
We know you’re all interested in the specifics of how the system works, but please do keep in mind that quite a few things in the game are still subject to change as we continue with the test. Don’t panic! Though we’re close to launch, we aren’t done testing!"
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Paitryn on October 14, 2011, 06:58:05 am
Originally Posted by DamionSchubert Hey, Guys --
I can't talk too long here today - we're trying to meet an important date - but the general gist of it is that the mod system you see in this build was -- well, let's just call it an overcorrection. In the next build, the mod system will undergo another major revision.
There are some things in the new mod system that we feel are an improvement - in particular the reduction in variety of the mods. However, in other areas we went too far. In particular, the next build will have a significant increase in the amount of moddable gear, and yes, many of the items you find in the world will be moddable and premodded yet again.
I don't want to go into the details of all of it yet. We're still fine-tuning the system, and I don't want to give you information that turns out inaccurate. But I think that most of you will in general be pleased with where it's ending up.
I'm not suprised that this is happening. The forums pretty much exploded with distaste with the current system. the previous one was a bit clunky and could be confusing at times so i understand they wanted to simplify. but yeah they really did simplify too much.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ZephixLeer (Zephic) on October 14, 2011, 06:09:12 pm
Sounds great. Id love to see some love to crafters in the customization department too. I kind of doubt that though. Im guessing the fix will be just adding more items that can be modded... As the post suggested
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on October 16, 2011, 02:13:08 pm
Quote
Robert Diaz: Will there be a cosmetic costume option for players, so they can appear one way, and yet have the best equipment?
Daniel: There is a route to do this, though not through the traditional appearance tab approach. We use the modding system to enable players to choose the core attributes of special sets of armor and cosmetic outfits so it's not only possible to keep that one really special set of Jedi robes all the way through the game, you can also, with a ton of work, be the person in the raid dressed as a slave girl or a sandperson.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Paitryn on October 16, 2011, 08:14:21 pm
I think that quote is pretty BS though. even in the last build with all its modifications that wasnt completely possible. but we'll see what the next build has in store.
The social gear outfits they have are pretty limited atm, but fully modifiable. One thing i will note that is the step in the right direction is that the mods DO add armor/tech power to the gear you are adding it to, so unlike last build, you can keep a piece of low level gear all the way to the top (theoretically)
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Ragnarok on October 16, 2011, 09:24:24 pm
Quote from: "Paitryn"
unlike last build, you can keep a piece of low level gear all the way to the top (theoretically)
You could do that last build it just didn't update the stats correctly. I had a rifle form around level 16 that I was still using at he end of the build.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on November 18, 2011, 01:56:02 pm
Now that the NDA is lifted I am FINALLY able to post these. My apologies for the low-rez textures, as this was using the wardrobe preview system. I imagine they'll look much better in all their high-rez glory. I found the PvP vendor and these sets were the default look for the highest gear. I'm sure they are still changing this up, but the important thing to note is that these looks are in the game in some way, and therefore theoretically useable. Here's what I was able to find:
Jedi Sage - might want to find a different hat...haha (http://followtheangel.org/tbone/beta/sageuniform01.jpg)
Jedi Shadow - I think this was a Shadow...not sure (http://followtheangel.org/tbone/beta/shadowuniform01.jpg)
Smuggler - three here, the third being medium level gear (but white) (http://followtheangel.org/tbone/beta/smuggleruniform01.jpg) (http://followtheangel.org/tbone/beta/smuggleruniform02.jpg) (http://followtheangel.org/tbone/beta/smuggleruniform03.jpg)
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: likwidtek on November 18, 2011, 02:28:36 pm
duuuuude.
Title: FA Uniform
Post by: Strod on November 18, 2011, 03:16:44 pm
I'm going to repeat what I said at the meeting and hope we go for the White/Silver crystal in all our lightsabers as a way to identify us. I know others will be doing it too, but not 20-40 people at a time when we're present. It may not cover all classes such as ones who don't use lightsabers, but it's a pretty nice "visual" start IMO.
Also, extreme disappointment on the Jedi Sage hat option. It could always change, but really that shouldn't be our hat. I don't want to look like I have Anakin's lovers hair due for a hat.
Title: FA Uniform
Post by: Manic Velocity on November 18, 2011, 04:45:04 pm
Capes look silly on the smuggler. Too superhero-ish.
The trench coat is a much better fit.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Solstice on November 18, 2011, 07:59:01 pm
Sentinel idea looks pretty sweet.
Title: FA Uniform
Post by: Fuse on November 18, 2011, 08:31:01 pm
Quote from: "ManicVelocity"
Capes look silly on the smuggler. Too superhero-ish.
The trench coat is a much better fit.
I'm totally making my char look like Mal. I think this is the closest we're going to get to the actual FFMMO.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on November 30, 2011, 01:41:28 pm
First official part of the uniform: the white crystal! Figuring it out slowly but surely!
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on December 06, 2011, 01:20:12 pm
I found an interesting post here (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=717041) about the modding system and changes that are being made. It's worth a read for all the content, but some stuff jumped out at me for developing a uniform:
Quote
To start with, we've introduced a new color and item type: the Custom items. Those are shown with an orange border and are fully moddable.
Quote
Partially moddable premium (green) items were removed as they essentially lied to the players: an item missing a mod slot would never be able to match a high end non-moddable item. Instead, to compensate for the loss of diversity, orange versions of all green armors was created and given to the crafters. So, yes, if you see a green armor you really like, you still can have that appearance until end level. It does take a bit of work - you either need to become a crafter yourself, befriend one or trawl the GTN.
(Note: recipes for those orange appearances are discovered through Underworld Trading missions.This allows us to have a truly large number of those recipes without overwhelming the crafting trainer inventory. As a side effect, this opens up class quest green armor appearances from other classes as well as long as you fulfill the armor requirements.)
Quote
So, instead of letting that happen, we prevented the Armoring, Hilt and Barrel from being extracted, but we also made sure of dropping purple Armoring mods of equivalent power as Operation loot. This means that players going the mod route can still take their favorite orange armor and make it as good as a operation purple armor (with some temporary caveats).
Quote
Instead, the crafter can now make a non-moddable item for those players that enjoy that and, thanks to newly introduced recipes, a moddable (but empty slotted) version of the item.
To summarize, crafters can now find orange (fully moddable versions) of every item of clothing in the game through Underworld Trading). These items can be kept up through mods to the end game and beyond, albeit it is more difficult to do so. These items also transcend class, so we could create a more uniform look, just needing to find light, medium, and heavy versions.
I'm still just confused about the Armor of an item. In my test time, I could never get the Armor of an item to change, despite changing out mods. If this gear can truly be upgraded to end game, shouldn't it give more than 42 Armor even with level 50 mods in it?
Edit: Nevermind. Found a video showing that the Armor stat DOES change with mods:
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Arawn on December 06, 2011, 02:01:00 pm
Yes. The base Mod item has yellow letters and a rating number, the higher the rating number, the more level the equipment get.
During beta, I was able to keep a lvl 5 item until level 12, then I found a level 9 Mod Able Item, and with the same mods I still used it until level 16.
Note: Only the base mod item raises the level of the item. That means that it dosent matter if I have a high level crystal on my Lightsaber; unless I put a high level Hilt on it, the level wont rise.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Anamodiel on December 09, 2011, 06:41:08 pm
I didn't see this posted anywhere. They're taking out the Unify Color to Chestpiece for Launch. Details below.
Few of our systems seem to have generated as much passion as our 'Unify Color to Chest Piece' system. So, I'd like to shed a bit of light onto exactly what this system is, what happened to it and what is in store for it in the future.
Pretty much from the start of the project, one of our goals was to solve the 'mismatched color' issue that exists in many MMORPGs. This initiative has actually been driven directly by James Ohlen, our Game Director, as this is an issue close to his heart.
Now, it is useful to understand that when artists create a new piece of armor, they always create it as part of a set. A certain pair of pants, for example, is thematically meant to go with a specific chest armor, gloves, boots, bracers and helmet. If the players always put on full sets, they would look very good indeed and the colors from the different pieces would complement each other. Of course, at any given level, players have access to many such sets and wear bits and pieces from multiple sources. Now, in Star Warsâ„¢: The Old Republicâ„¢, we have created sets that, in many cases, are quite compatible with each other. You'll notice that, for example, Jedi Knight outfits use a lot of earthy colors that work quite well together regardless of which set they come from. Unfortunately, this is not always true - the Trooper is a good example of a class that does not look its best with mismatched pieces.
To solve this we created an option called 'Unify color to chest piece', which we also called 'Color Match'. Once turned on, the option automatically matched the color of any equipped piece of armor to the color scheme of the chest piece. This option was very popular with our testers and did solve the color clash problem, but not without introducing some issues.
While we have a policy not to give details on a system in progress, I do want to talk a little about the worst design issue we encountered. As implemented, Color Match had a subtle but ultimately perverse effect: from the moment it was turned on, the player would perceive far less diversity in their loot. In some cases, to be honest, there are only so many differences we can create between two pairs of boots apart from their color scheme. Take away their color differences - thanks to the Color Match system - and you are left with a game that feels a bit less rewarding; where, sometimes, putting on your exciting new gear barely changes the appearance of the character. Depending on your personal preferences and your play style, this may or may not seem like much... but an MMO is a complex system of challenges and rewards and, as designers, we must stay vigilant in that regard.
So, anyway, the good news is that we are not only committed to solving the color clashing problem, we want to actually improve on the Color Matching system players experienced during Game Testing.
The bad news is... well, this won't be in for launch. The system we are currently working on isn't quite done yet and has many dependencies. After taking a hard look, we decided it would be preferable to keep Color Matching turned off for launch rather than try to do a potentially messy post-launch conversion. If anything, the live changes we made during testing to other systems (like the cover system or the item modification system) have shown us how confusing switching things under people's noses can be.
This wasn't exactly an easy decision - we know how popular the feature is and how eager and vocal the community has been for its return. So, I humbly ask for your patience. The feature (or, to be exact, something I consider a better version of the feature) will return. The next time you find a particularly bad combination of armor pieces, take some screenshots - and hopefully in a few months (as always, no deadline is guaranteed), you'll be able to tell new players "Back in my day, we had to wear those orange pants with purple boots! Uphill! Both ways! In the snow!"
As always, I'm very interested in hearing from you... I have (so far) managed to read every single post on the Item Modification system and will hopefully be able to post a follow up clarifying any concerns and questions that you have.
Emmanuel
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Keeloth on December 09, 2011, 07:52:02 pm
I really don't understand their logic, here.
Quote
Take away their color differences - thanks to the Color Match system - and you are left with a game that feels a bit less rewarding; where, sometimes, putting on your exciting new gear barely changes the appearance of the character.
Do they not understand that we are NOT enthused by color changes? Particularly if said color change is for the worse? I love getting items with higher stats, and if it looks the same, I'm a-ok with that. And it seems the majority of the fanbase shares this feeling. Why is removing this feature a good thing?
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Avzeke (Khr0n1k) on December 09, 2011, 11:34:30 pm
Quote from: "Keeloth"
I really don't understand their logic, here.
Quote
Take away their color differences - thanks to the Color Match system - and you are left with a game that feels a bit less rewarding; where, sometimes, putting on your exciting new gear barely changes the appearance of the character.
Do they not understand that we are NOT enthused by color changes? Particularly if said color change is for the worse? I love getting items with higher stats, and if it looks the same, I'm a-ok with that. And it seems the majority of the fanbase shares this feeling. Why is removing this feature a good thing?
What if you didn't like the look of the original item you had? I understand where they are coming from, if I had the same looking items for 30 levels, that would be really boring.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Keeloth on December 10, 2011, 10:11:41 am
Then you have the option of switching off "match to chestpiece." That said, if I didn't like the color of the original item I had, why would I have picked that color?
Personally, I think it would be sweet if I could look the same for 30 levels, simply because "Epic" sets in MMO tend to look fairly ridiculous. However, if the only change across 30 level of items is color, then there's a bigger underlying issue here.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Sared on December 14, 2011, 04:57:32 pm
Regarding the color crystals, there are versions usable as early as level 1.
Also, 'yall are going to be pissed when you see the high level Agent PvP gear. It's the closest thing to the classic MxO uniform I've seen to date. :P
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on December 27, 2011, 08:41:46 pm
So I've got my Synthweaving up to 400. I've been scouring the market for orange (custom) gear. It seems to be a lot of the same stuff. While they said ALL looks could be found, it looks like it's only certain green looks.
I did find a decent white robe for light armor (hood is down, though), and I can send that to whoever wants it.
For medium armor, the Corellia commendation vest looks AWESOME. It's level 50 and requires 12 Corellia commendations, though. It also isn't craftable, so there's no chance of getting an additional Augment slot.
Nothing for heavy yet.
One big issue is that the best PvP gear in the game has Expertise embedded into the gear, meaning it isn't mods that can be ripped out and put into oranges. Same with PvE gear and the high level Synthweaving stuff I can make. As it is now, it seems custom gear is always going to be a little gimped.
As a result, you may end up having several different outfits. A PvP outfit, PvE outfit, and RP FA outfit. I'm still experimenting with this, though, so we'll see. If we do just have an RP FA outfit, then we can expand into blues, greens, etc., since it won't need to be combat ready.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: JazzyC on December 28, 2011, 08:33:09 am
Roll on the introduction of clothing dyes!
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Manic Velocity on December 28, 2011, 09:33:06 am
There's a set of Smuggler PvP gear that is the quintessential "Han Solo" outfit. Part white, part black, and it just looks good without sticking out like a sore thumb like some of the other gear I've seen.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: JP on December 29, 2011, 12:41:55 am
So far from what I've been told by other 50's as well as our own Ratio... the "uniform" will not be viable in combat due to the best gear not being the orange gear but tiered PVE and PVP gear. So besides RP events is there any other purpose for the uniform.
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ExternalError on December 29, 2011, 01:56:52 am
the best stuff are critted oranges but only if you get the armour mod drops from raids which are rare
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: JP on December 29, 2011, 02:23:30 am
PVE wise only im assuming
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ExternalError on December 29, 2011, 03:01:19 am
yes expertise rules in pvp
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: Tbone on December 29, 2011, 03:45:07 am
The good news is that almost all of the last tier PvP and PvE sets have a common theme - they are WHITE. What this means is that whether you're wearing PvP gear, PvE gear, or a custom white set, we should all look uniform. HOPEFULLY!
Title: Re: FA Uniform
Post by: ExternalError on December 29, 2011, 04:46:32 am
yep so objective 1 for me is get valour rank 60 currently 39 so not far to go, objective 2 grind daily pvp quests for top tier boxes and cross fingers and hope