The Furious Angels
FA Discussion => General => Topic started by: Tbone on August 26, 2004, 12:56:32 am
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Lately I've been looking into potential trouble spots in our faction. It was brought to my attention that Tyshalle seemed to be picking fights with almost everyone. After reading several of his posts, it didn't even seem he was even going to play MxO once it is released (and if he did, he wouldn't be a happy gamer). A few weeks ago I had discusssed with Tyshalle some issues that I thought needed to be discussed. While I could see some effort on his part to improve things, it did not seem that he meshed well with anyone else. While he didn't do anything necessarily "wrong", we are a selective community and I didn't really see a point in keeping someone around who had no intention of helping improve our gaming experience. For this reason, I dismissed Tyshalle from the faction. The following is his reply to his dismissal:
"Ah, I IMed you before I saw this email. Well, that's too bad. I wish you'd have discussed this with me prior to making your decision, but you've gotta do what you gotta do. You may wish to talk to both Crimson and Muse, though, as I PMed both of them last night and let them both know how much I respect them, and how my intentions were never to make enemies with any of your members.
I IMed you today to discuss with you a couple of ideas I had for the clan that I'd like to run by you. People had been giving me some ideas of ways I could contribute to the clan more, and I was going to talk with you about it all.
My intentions were always good, even if my writing came on strong, I never attempted to disrespect anyone in our clan, and whenever people came to me with actual ways I could improve my relations with our members other than by "not talking," I took them up on it. If you noticed, I did cut back significantly on my swearing, as a result of many complaints about it.
I was trying to better myself in the clan, and I apologize that the changes didn't come by quick enough that I could be accepted as a valued member of the group.
Please relay my best wishes to the whole of the Clan, especially Muse, who if nothing else, she was a worthy "opponent," in our debates.
Perhaps someday I will be given back access to the group. I ask that you at least keep that as a possible option, for I think you'll find that I'm a completely different person in-game, than I am while waiting for the game.
It's been a pleasure, Tbone. I hope to see you in game. And please, do give my best wishes to the whole Clan. I know a lot of them didn't like me, but none of us really had a chance to get to know one another. It's a lot different talking about specific topics in forums, where people can have such varied opinions, which are very difficult to delve into in such long-delayed posts, than it is in IM's or other such faster-paced communication mediums.
Goodluck, Tbone. You were a good leader, I'm sorry I wasn't a good enough crewmate."
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I will give him one thing.... he is a good writer. I agree with all your points or removal, if we see him in game and he better, we could think about letting him back.
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OH MY GOD!LETS LET HIM BACK IN HE'S SOOOOO NICE!Not. I can't believe the " I had ideas for helping out the clan before you kicked me" bs.
But anyway, he should have came on ts, so we could really see how he was.
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Think I posted my thoughts about his leaving in another thread. Hard call but a good one imo. Maybe he's right and he does "play" differently than he "waits," in which case it's good that no bridges were burned because without the certain abrasiveness he'd be a star crewmate. Tyshalle is a helluva bright guy and definitely brings a spark of liveliness to things; but I have to admit I'm not displeased to see him go.
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good riddens
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It's always sad to see someone go, no matter what they've done.
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he merely had different views and diferent ways to express them. debates always unravel a slight anger towards another person whether you know it or not.. this person simply loved to debate, was smart, and a hell of a writer. yes i feel that he did need to go because of him not getting along with others... but thats no reason to not be sad to see him go
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It is, but Tyshalle rarely brought anything but fights here. Personality crash I guess, though he sometimes wouldn't really be THAT bad.
However, I agree on your decision Tbone..things were getting a bit hot.
I think the main problem was his negativity towards the game, and how he always was "right"...
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Just to point this out, but there will always be another like him who has the same thoughts and views. Still. I hope that as far as the situation goes we can get passed it and hope we don't have anymore negativity in the clan. I guess only time will tell how things will be directly affected in any descion that is made .
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I agree he was a relatively harsh guy and at least appeared to have some extreme opposition to other people's opinions; however, watching the progession of the discussion between Tyshalle and Muse I began to see a growth from the, I'll call it childish ranting and flaming into something far more mature that really brought out some very intelligent points. When you got passed all of his bull-headedness he really had some good things to say. I agree that it appeared most of what he said was purely negative, however it sounded to me like the majority of his experiences with MMO's have been relatively negative experiences, so we should only expect that he should be quite skeptical about another one. That being said there were definitely other ways he could have gone about expressing his views, i.e. being far less confrontational and a little more open-minded. I for the most part agreed with many of the things Tyshalle said, particularly about current MMO's, however where we differed is that as Tyshalle appeared to maintain that harsh skepticism that all MMO's are going to suck if some major formula changes aren't made, including one we have very little information about. I still have faith that MxO will be something new and exciting that will change the way MMO's are played today.
Anyway, even though he was a bastard sometimes I still respect the guy, and I hope to see him in game. Perhaps it is for the best that he be allowed to go and explore a little bit himself and formulate his own opinions about the game post-release, and then have some talks about regaining access to FA. Things will most definitely be a lot quieter with Tyshalle gone, however things will also be a lot less hostile.
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I agree. Although, Eligoh I don't doubt that he was planning on doing some things for the faction because I had given him some ideas to use his writing techniques to better causes rather then just to negatize everything.
His response makes you feel something of a sympathy for him and it almost makes ya want to go, "Hey we're sorry. You can come back." but not really. Any departing speech makes you feel sad and sympathy, and it makes you question whether or not you took the correct course of action, but you must hold firm that you make the best decision. In this choice I'm holding firm that th correct decision was made.
Unfortunately Tyshalle is gone, but as Tbone said we ARE a selective group, and being selective has nothing to do with emotions. I agree with Wolf, that there could have been other ways for Tyshalle to express his veiws, and he could have gotten a lot more helpful and conversational responses by being less confrontational.
It is a definate shame. If he had only focused on the actual facts of the matter without being so confrontational he could have inspired actual and true conversing on the topics, rather then a mass of people debating against him.
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The problem with Tyshalle was the fact that he had been warned so many times. He had his chances to change... all too many chances, in fact. It is sad to see anyone leave the faction, but in this case we are most certainly better off without him. We can't have members who degrade our community.
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Wolf said:
Things will most definitely be a lot quieter with Tyshalle gone, however things will also be a lot less hostile.
If things are less hostile it's probably for the better. It can't be healthy to have divisions in the clan. I might be too much of a "softy," but I'm a firm believer second chances, third chances, and however many chances. Maybe the fact that there were actually consequences for his actions would be enough to keep Tyshalle from being so negative and argumentative if we ever let him back in. I guess we'll have to wait to see him in game before even considering anything like that though.
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I posted my veiws on this in another thread, but one comment too seven's post: Come on dude. You dont say good riddance when someone leaves. Thats disrespectful.
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Go Seven! Go Seven! W00t! W00t! Go Seven!
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Just because you may have had some problems with him is no reason to celebrate his leaving the faction.
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Oh sorry, i'll rub my eyes lots so they start to water.
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I didn't say that either. I think we should just have respect for any member leaving the faction.
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I agree.
People come and go.
Even though you might disagree with someone it's always a good thing to remain civil. You never know when you'll need them. Never say never :-)
I used to work with an older gentleman who told me "Never close a door if you can keep it open, even just slightly."
Just my two cents.
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guys do me a favor, dont judge what i say, since you did not experience what i went thru with him, and what he has said to me... how nice of you guys to reply based on just the things you've seen or read, when in all honesty thats merely all you know.
i am the only one who said "good riddens" perhaps i am the only one that had the biggest problem with him. and if this is true.. then leave my thoughts be, i appreciate your opinions, but like i said, you have no idea why i say it, so why act like you do.
you tell me he was just diffrent, and the things he said might have been a little harsh, even though they affected many. but then when i say "good riddens" although a little harsh, was directed only towards him... you all reply like that?
...nice
now if i was to forward hate emails and flame pm's i had recieved from him particularly the email about what he felt about all of you "wonderful people" after he was kicked, showing what i like to call "his real side" i can almost guarantee alot of you might feel the same feelings towards him as i do.
but hey, like you say.. he wasnt such bad guy. w/e
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Alright guys, lets not make this any bigger of a deal than it is already. Things happen, people say things, deal with it. We're all adults here.. most of us ;)
Tyshalle was a bad character... as said before, he was warned numerous times.. many of you may think "oh ok.. he said a few things and was warned..." WRONG, the guy had been around for quit some time. This was all going on for months on end. He didn't respond well to anyone. His farwell could be described as "too little too late." He wasn't willing to change how he acted and how he degraded members of the faction until after the fact.
Had he been the "nice guy" you all may feel he was after having read the email, he would still be here. Trust me when I say that everything that happens in such cases is always in the best interest of the faction. -Or it is, at the very least, what the captains, staff, and Tb0ne feel are in the best interest. That's all we can offer.
Please understand that even though facts may not always be given about such cases, there may indeed be reason behind things like what seven said. So, try to remain open-minded, as I'm sure won't be hard for any of you. :) It's part of being here, is it not? ;)
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You're right.
We don't know much (if anything) about what you guys said or did to each other. I don't pretend to know.
I'm just saying that there's not much value in tearing his head off even though it might feel good. Especially now that Tyshalle's gone.
I didn't like the guy especially but the fact is that he has the right to do what he wants... and suffer the consequences of his actions.
Let's just move on to more constructive things.
I meant no offense.
Again, that's just my two cents.
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good riddens = tearing his head off??
as opposed to others saying "i feel it was a good decision to kick him"
and do i not have the right to say good riddens?
...lol
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:-)
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I did not mean to judge you Seven. You are allowed to have your own opinion; I was just trying to defend the respect of someone who I have not had too bad of an experience with.
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Hmm... It would seem to me that even in his absence Tyshalle is still dividing the clan. I say we let people's decisions about him be that as it may, their decisions. I also say let's get off this topic because talking about it further serves no purpose other then to diassemble the clan even more. It's time for Tyshalle to truly leave the faction.
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I feel dissapointed that no-one had the patience to deal with him, he was unique. I know, I agrued the very point with him on a number of occaisions. He did not directly insult any of the people during his time here, and only after he got kicked out for voicing his opinions did he get angry. I think any of you would. I say do unto others as they should do to you. I know he didn't like everyone in the clan, but he had respect for the people who counted in his view. When you get a community this big you can't expect everyone to have the same opinion, unless you are clones or sheep.
I don't want to say any more but I respected the guy and I'm not happy to see him go.
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The thing is, it doesnt matter if deep down he had original views. We are (Suppose to be) a group of friends who are looking forward to playing a game sometime in the future. He was a good guy if you didnt immediatly attack his ideas, and for some of you that's habitual. Even if we dont all get along, it's a pretty stupid reason to stick around since that's why you joined. His opinions were neat, I'll warrant that - but the times they popped up just sounded whiney and whatnot. If not for his seemingly whiney rants (And peoples less than mature responses at many points) I am really indifferent to see him go, he never contributed anything but his opinion.
And nobody cared.
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Hey AcidicPlague. Is this "No spam" logo part of your avatar or is this a warning from someone that you are a spammer ? :-)
Your "category" is "forum spammer" so...
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It got put there a while ago when there was some spamming problems. I assume it's still there because an admin has yet to remove it, or he requested it stay there because it's funny.
GUys can we sorta get over this? It's diving the faction and it has no reason too - let's get back to more important matters.
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I feel dissapointed that no-one had the patience to deal with him, he was unique. I know, I agrued the very point with him on a number of occaisions. He did not directly insult any of the people during his time here, and only after he got kicked out for voicing his opinions did he get angry. I think any of you would. I say do unto others as they should do to you. I know he didn't like everyone in the clan, but he had respect for the people who counted in his view. When you get a community this big you can't expect everyone to have the same opinion, unless you are clones or sheep.
I don't want to say any more but I respected the guy and I'm not happy to see him go.
Oronos, like everyone here you are welcome to your opinion, but since you voice it in such detail, I feel the need to point out where I think you are incorrect.
First, Tyshalle was not unique, unless by that you mean to say that every human being is unique in which case we are all equally unique. He was merely argumentative. And some may view that as a positive characteristic. When matched with derision and an insulting demeanor, I do not.
Second, you seem to think he didn't insult anyone. I beg to differ. He very specifically meant to insult me on a couple of different occassions. I saw him do the same to others frequently in his little "debates." _YOU_ may not have felt that _I_ was insulted; but I did so don't try and tell me that he didn't insult any of the crew here.
Third, he didn't get kicked out for voicing his opinions. He got kicked out for being an asshole about HOW he voiced his opinions. He got kicked out because he absolutely failed to "fit in." Fitting in does not mean having the same opinions, it means being generally respectful toward your crewmates.
Fourth, I don't expect everyone to share my opinion, in fact I'd prefer if they didn't because that is boring. But I DO expect people to treat my opinion with the respect it deserves and I will do likewise. There is simply no need to demean anothers' opinion, even if you flat out disagree with it. And if you can't see that he was doing that, then we are on completely opposite sides of the opinion spectrum on the subject.
Now, IMO as a humble crewmate, we should let those who are happy at his leaving rejoice and those who are upset grieve. I also think its silly to believe we have to respect people who leave the faction. If they leave because they cannot play or they wish to find their true path or whatever, great; if they leave because THEY ARE KICKED OUT, then it's something else entirely. The fact that he was able to beat the first puzzle does not mean he is automatically entitled to my respect even after disrespecting my crewmates and myself several times over. It's that simple. If it makes me a bad person in your eyes because I'm glad I don't have to put up with his negative, in-your-face posts, then I'm prepared to deal with that consequence. /shrug
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Why dont we just lock this thread......as this is quickly turning into either a "I can voice my opinion, but dont criticize it with your opinion" thread, or just a plain out bad argument.
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I agree.
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I think everyone's had a chance to express their opinion on the matter. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me privately.
Transmission killed by Tbone